Posted on 03/08/2011 10:19:18 AM PST by NYer
Protestants say were saved by faith. Some Catholics say were saved by good works.
What does the Bible say?
This Sundays readings* are clear its neither. And its both. At the very same time.
First, lets define our terms. When St. Paul says works dont save us, he is really referring to two things. First of all, he is speaking about the works of the Mosaic Law, which include everything from keeping dietary regulations to observing the Ten Commandments. Secondly, he means good actions performed by willpower, without any particular help from God. Paul had thought that rigorous observance of the Law, carrying out its prescribed works, was the key to making a person right with God. But his attempts to observe the law met with frustration (see Romans 7:15-24). The Law made him aware of Gods will but did not enable him to carry it out. I cannot even understand my own actions. I do not do what I want to do but what I hate what a wretched man I am! His attempts at outward observance didnt change his heart. In fact his heart was so far from God that he cruelly persecuted the followers of Jesus, looking on in approval as St. Stephen was stoned to death.
In Romans 3:23 St. Paul lays it out: We have all sinned seriously. None of us, on our own steam and by our own merits, can ever do enough to earn Gods favor. So God has fixed the problem he gives us his favor as a free, undeserved gift in response to the sacrifice of Jesus, His son. We become pleasing to him, reconciled to him, not by our own efforts but by the cross of Christ. We receive this gift through the act of faith. So we are saved by faith, not by the works at least not by the works of the Mosaic Law, done by our own strength.
So the faith camp wins? Not so fast. Lets take a closer look at what the Bible means by faith.
Many people think that faith is belief. Belief that God exists that Jesus is the son of God that Jesus rose from the dead. Intellectual assent to all these truths is of course important, and is an indispensable part of the act of faith. Such belief often leads to religious actions the hanging of crucifixes in our home, the wearing of medals, the recitation of prayers. These acts of piety are also good.
But Sundays Gospel says that mere belief and acts of piety are not enough to save us. Those rejected by God in Matt 7:21-23 clearly believed in Jesus; in fact, they prophesied and worked miracles in Jesus name. Perhaps they also said novenas in his name. But he said to them out of my sight, you evil doers. One of the strongest lines in the gospels provides an explanation: None of those who cry out, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of God but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
Biblical faith is not just belief. It is surrender. It is a complete entrusting of oneself to God in Christ and acceptance of his power, his will, and his plan. If we truly say yes to Him and let his grace into our hearts, well never be the same. His love begins to work through us and change our lives. His Spirit takes up residence within us, giving us the strength to do what we could never do on our own, even to begin to love like He loves.
So true biblical faith is not passive. It is active, dynamic and alive. Thats why St. James says that faith without works is dead (James 2:24-26). Abraham believed that an unknown God was calling him to leave civilization and march into the desert to find a land that this God has promised him. Abraham did not sit and contemplate this call or set up a shrine to this God. He got up and began walking (Genesis 12).
So we are justified by faith, if we mean the authentic biblical faith that causes us to walk in Gods ways. And we are justified by works, if we mean the works of charity that can only flow from faith and grace.
So really, its not faith vs. works. Its faith that works.
I think we are mixing definitions here. I don’t think there are any Protestants anywhere who will deny that belief results in positive action - i.e. proof of salvation. That is indeed the cornerstone of our argument. Belief is not some passive thought process. A saving faith is the beginning of a relationship with our Lord, but our salvation is not dependent on somehow not screwing up. We can’t earn it, didn’t earn, won’t ever earn it. It’s grace - a gift. We can’t lose what we haven’t earned. That’s why only God can do the job.
precisely.
The plain text of Hebrews 9:12 that I mentioned previously clearly states the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is sufficient.
Read it again “...He entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.”
Does that text suggest that somehow the sacrifice of Christ was not sufficient and did not secure our redemption forever? No! It does not say that Jesus did a lot for us, but it was not enough.
If one is saved one doesn’t “glibly go around sinning”. You’re talking about someone who hasn’t been regenerated. They are playing church - not genuinely saved. There are many on that day who will say “Lord, Lord, have we not by thy Name prophesied, and by thy Name cast out devils? and by thy Name done many great works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you, depart from me ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:22-23. Clearly works salvation/playing church is a one way ticket to Hell.
The Lord has entrusted lots of things to us: money, natural talents, spiritual gifts, the saving truth of the Gospel. He expects us not just to conserve these things but to grow them. In the last supper discourse (John 15) He speaks of the disciples as bearing much fruit. The fact that such an individual was not focused on that particular message at the time of their death, does not rule out that during their life, they may very well have been generous in sharing their "talents" with others.
You missed the message entirely. Each one of us has God-given abilities (i.e. "talents"). It is commensurate upon us to "multiply" those talents in our lifetimes, sharing them with others. (Matthew 25:14-30)
If you are referring to St Paul's message in Ephesians 2: 8-10 I have no quarrel with that.
Sounds like a work to me. You have to hold it fast. If you don't, you lose it.
Exactly the point of Scripture.
As the context of that parable demonsrates, those who have good soil, meaning good hearts, will hold fast the word of God; so they will continue to believe the word of God. That verse that doesn’t say that doing good works earns someone salvation.
If you consider a continual belief in God as a work then fine - that is semantics. The point is a true belief in God and not a superficial belief in God is what saves a person. You can tell those who have a true belief in God because they will bear fruit. All others do not have a solid belief.
That’s it - it’s that simple. True belief leads to good works. A person doesn’t need to do good works to earn their way into Heaven. They should do good works because they have a relationship with Christ who gives power to his followers to do good.
Quote me exactly, show me exactly where I SAID it, if not admit you are in error or lying.
See my post 91.
Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,
Yeah I was pretty sure I had quoted it correctly in context: lacking in Christ's afflictions
What could that mean, what could that mean? Oh yeah it must mean that Verga knows what he is talking about.
Wow!!!! A Catholic article I actually agree with. I’m glad this isn’t a Caucus thread so I can say that. :O)
Faith is a work
"They think I'm a saint... When I'm dead, they'll come and touch holy pictures and rosaries to me, and all the while I'll be getting broiled on a grill in purgatory. At least promise me you'll pray a lot for the repose of my soul." --Bernadette Speaks / Song of BernadetteAfter viewing "Song of Bernadette" several times, I can say that if ever there was a woman that didn't need to concern herself regarding her soul's final resting place, it would be Bernadette Soubirous. And yet, even she requested prayers.
That statement is saying that Jesus is not sufficient.
Applaud and many blessings for your great post.
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