Posted on 03/08/2011 10:19:18 AM PST by NYer
Maybe you should have.
Or, better yet, you could have skipped the story entirely, and just said what you meant.
When Paul was on his second mission trip and talking to the Phillippians and he was talking about “work out your salvation” it was not a reference to “earn ones salvation” but his expression of one’s salvation in spiritual growth and development. Salvation is a gift received once and for all, it is however expressed as an ongoing process where the believer is actively involved. “Fear and trembling” is not doubt and anxiety but in reference to active reverence and spinelessness purpose of response to God’s Grace.
I’m confused. I thought catholics weren’t “saved” until St. Peter let them in? Is this author’s opinion in line with Rome and the C of the CC?
“He has offered Himself for us... it is finished. But it is not truly the end. If it was, there would be no resurrection!”
Wrong!!
Read Hebrews 10:10 “By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
It is finished! Jesus’ sacrifice was once and for all - what other sacrifice can you add on top of the most worthy sacrifice of all?
I lean toward Christ and His Church, but I did Learn how to read and the plain text says that something is Missing (lacking) in Christs Suffering and it must be added to. And we must add our own work. You can't say the sinners prayer and then go around glibly sinning to your hearts content and think you are heaven bound. You can't sit idly by and watch your neighbor suffer and think you are going to heaven, we must be Christ to the world, spreading His word and doing His work. You don't like it great but you are not a Christian by an stretch of the imagination then
So to sum it up your Jesus is not sufficient, you must help Him.
Ok, if that is what you learned in graduate school you really need to get your money back.
No, I’m not making it up.
1 John 5:13 “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.”
John 10:27-28 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.”
Luke 8:15 “But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart and hold it fast, and bear fruit with preservance.”
Clearly, the parable of the soils shows there are some who will have a true faith that will bear fruit and will perservere. Care to tack back your comment??
The parable of the soils teaches there are those with a nominal faith that withers because their heart is not strong and they do not perservere. Those are people who may claim to be Christians but do not show any fruit.
Very well said.
only IF you endure: Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. (2 Tim. 2:11–12).
And only IF you stand firm: [Jesus said] “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” Mark 13:13
And only IF you do what God wants: “God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. (Rom. 2:6–8).
Clearly, what you do is rewarded by God. Like Paul, you must be ‘working out my salvation in fear and trembling’ (Phil. 2:12), knowing that it is God’s gift of Grace that is working in you.
“Fear and trembling” is not doubt and anxiety but in reference to active reverence and spinelessness purpose of response to God’s Grace.
You are just making this up. Fear is fear. Trembling is trembling. It is the absolute fear and trembling that Paul’s salvation might be lost.
Very well said. Paul was not saying Christ’s death was insufficient to save. That’s why I went back and picked up previous verses. Context, context, context. Scriptures never contradict themselves, but they must be read in context.
So, to get that mansion in the sky Jesus paid the down payment on the cross, and then requires us to pay the rest of Mortgage off!
I like the old hymn that says...
Jesus paid it all,
All to HIM I owe.
Sin has left a crimson stain,
He washes white as snow.
“...and the plain text says that something is Missing (lacking) in Christs Suffering and it must be added to. And we must add our own work.”
Your understanding is in direct contradiction to Hebrews 9:12 “With His own blood - not the blood of goats and calves - He entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.”
Jesus’ sacrifice is not lacking in any way. You can try to add your pitiful good works on top of what Jesus did, but His work is the greatest of all and is sufficient.
Thanks
Is that what I said? Show me exactly where I said that.
Serious question: is English your first language? Because if not I will be glad to show it to you in the original Greek which makes it even more clear.
What does the plain text say?
Your post 65
You stated that something is missing or lacking in Christ’s sacrifice. That implies that somehow Christ lacked the power to redeem us, so in a sense you are suggesting that Christ is not sufficient.
OK. Here goes. Context matters. Let’s back up what’s said in Romans to give the context: Speaking of the Jews and the Gentiles and who was now being given the Gospel and why: Romans 11:20 says “Well, through UNBELIEF they are broken off, and thou standest BY FAITH...” and again in verse 23: “And they also if they abide not still in UNBELIEF, shall be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.” Faith, belief - all there.
2 Timothy 2:11-12 is speaking of those who would deny Christ - a clear act of unbelief. If one uses this to say that certain acts can damn one (which, in essence is the flip side of believing one can earn salvation), then what of Peter?
Mark 13:13 - again, as discussed earlier, this is speaking of the sanctification process.
1 Corinthians 10:11-12 if read carefully will show to be speaking of pride and sin, not damnation. Let’s continue on with the next verse: “There hath no temptation taken you, but such as appertaineth to man and God is faithful, which will not suffer you to be tempted above that you be able, but will even give the issue with the temptation that ye may be able to bear it.” It’s an encouragement to the brethren not to think they can resist sin in their own flesh. Has nothing to do with earning salvation.
Abraham was justified through FAITH which was evident in his actions. No mystery there. No contradiction.
Galations 1:4 - the words “might be” isn’t an expression of doubt but a grammatical construction - the subjunctive. Otherwise the verse makes no sense and becomes ridiculous in meaning: God isn’t sure Who can be saved or that He’s up to the job? Ridiculous!
Romans 2:6-8 is speaking of believers versus nonbelievers and has already been addressed in post 34.
Philippians 2:12 has already been discussed - see my post and also post 21.
Yes! Remember the parable of the sower. There are many “types” discussed there, but those who have a saving faith are not those who fall away.
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