Saved by Faith or Works?

Catholic Exchange ^ | March 3, 2011 | Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D.

[JLLH]

I think we are mixing definitions here. I don’t think there are any Protestants anywhere who will deny that belief results in positive action - i.e. proof of salvation. That is indeed the cornerstone of our argument. Belief is not some passive thought process. A saving faith is the beginning of a relationship with our Lord, but our salvation is not dependent on somehow not screwing up. We can’t earn it, didn’t earn, won’t ever earn it. It’s grace - a gift. We can’t lose what we haven’t earned. That’s why only God can do the job.

[Turtlepower]

precisely.

[Turtlepower]

The plain text of Hebrews 9:12 that I mentioned previously clearly states the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is sufficient.
Read it again “...He entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.”

Does that text suggest that somehow the sacrifice of Christ was not sufficient and did not secure our redemption forever? No! It does not say that Jesus did a lot for us, but it was not enough.

[JLLH]

If one is saved one doesn’t “glibly go around sinning”. You’re talking about someone who hasn’t been regenerated. They are playing church - not genuinely saved. There are many on that day who will say “Lord, Lord, have we not by thy Name prophesied, and by thy Name cast out devils? and by thy Name done many great works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you, depart from me ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:22-23. Clearly works salvation/playing church is a one way ticket to Hell.

[NYer]

And if it is Belief + Works, I sure feel sorry for those accepting Christ at the last moments of their life – not having time left for works.

The Lord has entrusted lots of things to us: money, natural talents, spiritual gifts, the saving truth of the Gospel. He expects us not just to conserve these things but to grow them. In the last supper discourse (John 15) He speaks of the disciples as bearing much fruit. The fact that such an individual was not focused on that particular message at the time of their death, does not rule out that during their life, they may very well have been generous in sharing their "talents" with others.

[NYer]

So, to get that mansion in the sky Jesus paid the down payment on the cross, and then requires us to pay the rest of Mortgage off!

You missed the message entirely. Each one of us has God-given abilities (i.e. "talents"). It is commensurate upon us to "multiply" those talents in our lifetimes, sharing them with others. (Matthew 25:14-30)

[svcw]

No.
We work for the Kingdom because we are Saved by Grace, not to earn Salvation.
When our bodies fail, we have the privilege to join God Almighty for Eternity.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***You missed the message entirely. Each one of us has God-given abilities (i.e. “talents”).****

If you are referring to St Paul's message in Ephesians 2: 8-10 I have no quarrel with that.

[FatherofFive]

and hold it fast

Sounds like a work to me. You have to hold it fast. If you don't, you lose it.

Exactly the point of Scripture.

[Turtlepower]

As the context of that parable demonsrates, those who have good soil, meaning good hearts, will hold fast the word of God; so they will continue to believe the word of God. That verse that doesn’t say that doing good works earns someone salvation.

If you consider a continual belief in God as a work then fine - that is semantics. The point is a true belief in God and not a superficial belief in God is what saves a person. You can tell those who have a true belief in God because they will bear fruit. All others do not have a solid belief.

That’s it - it’s that simple. True belief leads to good works. A person doesn’t need to do good works to earn their way into Heaven. They should do good works because they have a relationship with Christ who gives power to his followers to do good.

[verga]

That implies that somehow

Quote me exactly, show me exactly where I SAID it, if not admit you are in error or lying.

[verga]

See my post 91.

[verga]

The plain text of Hebrews 9:12 that I mentioned previously clearly states the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is sufficient. Read it again “...He entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.” Does that text suggest that somehow the sacrifice of Christ was not sufficient and did not secure our redemption forever? No! It does not say that Jesus did a lot for us, but it was not enough.

Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

Yeah I was pretty sure I had quoted it correctly in context: lacking in Christ's afflictions

What could that mean, what could that mean? Oh yeah it must mean that Verga knows what he is talking about.

[verga]

Congratulations, that is the precise definition of every protestant group out there, they are Playing at church to use your definition.

[HarleyD]

Wow!!!! A Catholic article I actually agree with. I’m glad this isn’t a Caucus thread so I can say that. :O)

[Jim Noble]

Faith is a work

[mlizzy]

St. Bernadette, to whom Mary ("I am The Immaculate Conception") appeared to in Lourdes, said:

"They think I'm a saint... When I'm dead, they'll come and touch holy pictures and rosaries to me, and all the while I'll be getting broiled on a grill in purgatory. At least promise me you'll pray a lot for the repose of my soul." --Bernadette Speaks / Song of Bernadette

After viewing "Song of Bernadette" several times, I can say that if ever there was a woman that didn't need to concern herself regarding her soul's final resting place, it would be Bernadette Soubirous. And yet, even she requested prayers.

St. Bernadette, please pray for us!

(Wishing everyone a good and productive Lenten season.)

[svcw]

You state in your post #65 And we must add our own work.

That statement is saying that Jesus is not sufficient.

[NavyCanDo]

It sounds like you are saying the thief on the cross that Jesus said will be in Paradise, made it because Jesus could see the good works he did in his life. I don't think that at all. The Thief “made it” because he truly believed in his heart that the man being crucified next to him was the Messiah.

[lastchance]

Applaud and many blessings for your great post.