Posted on 03/01/2011 6:53:09 PM PST by delacoert
When Mormon missionaries come to my door, even they sometimes make the point that the Mormon church is different than all other churches that claim to be Christian. I find that I must agree. Even though Mormonism says many of the same things that other churches say, a more detailed discussion usually reveals that the ideas behind many of the words are totally different than orthodox Christianity. Even though Mormons often display admirable traits in personal and family life, the doctrinal positions of the church itself cannot be harmonized with the teaching of the Bible. Here are some key differences… …We must accept the fact that there was a time when Deity was much less powerful than He is today. Then how did He become glorified and exalted and attain His present status of Godhood? In the first place, aeons ago God undoubtedly took advantage of every opportunity to learn the laws of truth and as He became acquainted with each new verity He righteously obeyed it. From day to day He exerted His will vigorously, and as a result became thoroughly acquainted with the forces lying about Him. As He gained more knowledge through persistent effort and continuous industry, as well as through absolute obedience, His understanding of the universal laws continued to become more complete. Thus He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became God by absolute obedience to all the truth, and thereby became the author of eternal truth. Therefore, the road that the Eternal Father followed to Godhood was one of living at all times a dynamic, industrious, and completely righteous life. There is no other way to exaltation. Mormonism also teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones. The Bible says: God has existed eternally in perfection, and has never had less of His infinite power and wisdom than He has today. Adam was the first created man of flesh. Mormonism says: Jesus and Satan, like the rest of us, were spirit brothers and sons of God before the spirit of Jesus was given a body by Mary in Bethlehem. The Mormon “Book of Moses” presents Satan and Jesus as contending for the privilege of taking a body of flesh in order to become the redeemer, with Jesus winning the contest. [See Joseph Smith, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses 4:1-4.] Mormonism also teaches that Jesus was the physical son of God the Father and Mary, and that there is nothing in His life more than what is attainable by anyone else. When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus… he was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is his Father? He is the first of the human family. …Jesus our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden. His humanity is to be recognized as real and ordinary …whatever happened to him may happen to any one of us. …The divinity of Jesus, and the divinity of all other noble and stately souls, in so far as they, too, have been influenced by a spark of Deity - can be recognized as manifestations of the Divine. The Bible says: Jesus Christ has existed eternally as God the second Person of the Trinity, and then took on a human nature at His birth in Bethlehem. Since then He exists eternally as one Person with both divine and human natures. Mormonism says: All human beings and spirits, including Jesus and Satan, existed as spirit beings before being born. Physical birth gives bodies to these spirits, and an opportunity to choose right or wrong. Thus the present life is a period of probation. The way a person lives in this life determines their status in the life after the resurrection. If the deeds of this life have been satisfactory and all temple obligations have been fulfilled, the individual becomes a god and is considered eligible to create “spirit children” as God the Father did and populate a world of his own. The Bible says: There is no pre-existence of human spirits in an earlier life before our earthly existence; the Bible does not teach this in any form. And humanity is permanently on a lower level than God. Though we may become like Him in moral purity in heaven, we never become infinite in regard to time, space or ability. And the Bible says nothing about populating other worlds—simply about the futurekingdom of Christ and the New Jerusalem on this world (Revelation 21-22). Mormonism says: The Mormon church uses the Bible and the Book of Mormon as their primary authority, with the addition of the Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price. The LDS “Living Prophet” can speak oracles which actually supercede scripture and any previous prophet's oracles, including Joseph Smith. The Bible holds the least amount of authority in the Mormon church. The Bible says: God's Word (the Bible) alone is authoritative. Mormonism says that Christ overcame physical death and guaranteed physical resurrection to all mankind. But spiritual death can only be avoided by individual obedience to the commandments of God. Forgiveness of sins requires baptism by an approved Mormon priest. The practice of baptism for the dead is an extension of this belief, in which Mormons are baptized in proxy for those who have died without proper baptism. The Bible says: We are unable to live a life righteous enough to meet God's standard of perfect holiness. Therefore we become right with God by faith in the work of Christ, not by our own works. Baptism and holy living are acts of obedience to God, but not a means of gaining salvation. Mormonism says: Although there is some form of punishment (possibly temporary) for those that are most wicked, Christ will usher in a kingdom that will consist of three levels by the end of the millennium: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. It is possible to advance within each of these kingdoms. The Bible only speaks of two final fates for mankind: heaven or hell. And nothing is said of advancing in status in either location. The Mormon church describes itself as the Church of Jesus Christ; why then do most other churches say that Mormonism is not Christian?
About God
Mormonism says: God is the Supreme Being of the universe, but he has not always held that position. He gradually attained godhood by living a perfectly righteous life.
—Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages (Salt Lake City: Steven & Wallis, 1945), pp. 114-115 (emphasis added). The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also…
—Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22. About Jesus Christ
—Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 1:50-51, as cited in Gordon H. Fraser, Is Mormonism Christian? (Chicago: Moody, 1955), p. 58.
—Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (Salt Lake City: Deseret, 1883) (emphasis added). About Man
Sources of Authority
We believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. —Articles of Faith, 8.
About Salvation
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. …We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
—Articles of Faith, 3 and 4 (emphasis added) The Future
==>> One might ask, did you not judge the very post you responded to? <<==
Good question and fair. Yes. But there is a difference between judging and condemning.
Here is why....
Luk 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Luk 6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.
The crazy thing is that we can’t see the beam because we’re blind.
All I am saying is that each of us is playing with the hand of cards that were dealt by God
On this I agree, Mormons are no different to JW’s who believe that they can speak for God.
That being said, God has put this belief in them for a reason and this is something I struggle with.
DO we walk by them with our heads in the air like the pious priests walked past the beaten stranger on the side of the road, or..... do we help them in some small way to find the Truth that we so fervently call our own.
I think we both know the answer to this and I myself fall way short. Knowing something should be done and not is worth than not knowing at all.
“That being said, God has put this belief in them for a reason”
WHAT??? You blame heresy in false religions on GOD???
Ahhhh, maybe you should rethink who the father of lies is...
WHAT??? You blame heresy in false religions on GOD???
Ahhhh, maybe you should rethink who the father of lies is...
Not at all. But let me see if you can provide me with this? Show me one thing that Satan did that God did not permit or allow.
Also, you might reread the following poignant Scripture.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I ask this in all fairness. How can one believe on one hand that God our Father is all knowing, without beginning and without end, without whom nothing exists. Be clueless and powerless against the actions of a mere human????
I don’t get it.
Who created who?
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Perhaps it is you who needs to do a little rethinking
“Show me one thing that Satan did that God did not permit or allow.”
The fact that God ALLOWS evil a brief reign on earth is DIFFERENT that saying God CREATED it, as you did.
“I don’t get it.”
CLEARLY. Totally, on this matter.
Now, Isaiah 45:7:
“Everything that exists does so because of the creative will of God. God was not claiming that He creates moral “evil” (AV) but both well-being (Heb. shalom) and calamity (Heb. ra’). He causes bad things to happen to people for His own reasons, as well as good things, but He does not cause people to make morally evil decisions.”
[my friend Tom Constable quote]
I understand what you are saying and if everyone of us was dealt the exact same cards and lived the exact same circumstances, then all things being equal, so should their thinking.
But who can know why one thinks as they do? Why do they react, reason, speak as they do? Clearly, we all do not share the same moral standards of what is right and what is wrong. Looking over the whole playing field called life; are any of us identical in all we believe? I say not.
So why not? Because God did not create us to be.
To some he gave a clear heart and bad circumstances and they grew strong. Whilst others he darkened hearts but gave wealth, and they never grew to know God. Their hearts were hardened by God, something he tells us he does.
Sometimes I wonder whose hearts are hardened most
The fact that God ALLOWS evil a brief reign on earth is DIFFERENT that saying God CREATED it, as you did.
Your opinion vs Gods Word. I know who I chose to believe and it is not yours
“So why not? Because God did not create us to be.”
And that is where we part ways, FRiend. Your road of belief, as expressed here, is one traveled by Manicheism, which was rightly condemned before 400 AD.
Either mormonism is true, or it is not. God did not create it. A snake oil salesman, treasure hunter and scam guy created it.
It contradicts the truth as revealed in the Bible. Mormonism and Christianity cannot BOTH be true. One makes Christ into a created spirit being who later becomes a god. Christianity says he was neither created nor made, but is eternally God. Which do you believe?
If you cannot see that, then back to the Book for you. Study to show yourself approved, a workman who knows how to handle the Word of God.
“Sometimes I wonder whose hearts are hardened most”
I sometimes wonder what they are teaching in schools and churches these days...
best,
ampu
“The fact that God ALLOWS evil a brief reign on earth is DIFFERENT that saying God CREATED it, as you did.”
God does not CREATE evil. At least not the God who reveals Himself in the Bible. Perhaps one of the mormon pantheon of gods?
Christ instructed us to be as ‘little children’
We are told to NOT trust in our understanding. What you know, you have been given to know. Not all will reach the top of the mountain. Some will take the easy road and some will struggle all their life. God judges one’s heart and the actions the heart produces.
I never said that I believed the Mormon faith. In fact I never told you what my faith is.
FRiend, I am not the one getting out of shape or telling you to go back to the Book.
If you are so comfortable in your belief then please do not get so bent out of shape.
We are God’s children are we not? His spirit returns to him when we all die.
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
I asked you are very simple question. Show me any place where Satan did anything that God did not want. I will make it easier.....show me in the Bible anywhere Satan disrespected God or for that matter Jesus. Satan or ANY demon.
Then ask yourself why not?
The greatest fallacy is that God is at war with Evil!
“I asked you are very simple question. Show me any place where Satan did anything that God did not want. I will make it easier.....show me in the Bible anywhere Satan disrespected God or for that matter Jesus. Satan or ANY demon.”
..............
When you make a truth claim, as you did, it is incumbent upon you to support that claim with facts, evidence and logic to demonstrate it is true. You have not done so.
It is not up to me to disprove your claim.
I believe your argument so far is a heresy that the Church
condemned before 400 AD.
Best,
ampu
Your problem, not mine FRiend.
You see, I trust in God, with all my heart and I do not lean on my own understanding. Not in the teaching of the Church.
Luk 18:16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
Very simple really, and it even gets easier to understand.
1Jo 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
Please do not come back with: “Christ mean’t paternal brothers”
1Jo 4:21 And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
No hard feelings
BTBA,
You entered this thread, denied that mormonism is a heresy,
claimed that God created evil and claimed I hate people.
For the record:
Mormonism is a heresy. If you do not believe that there is a such thing as heresy, then you do not believe there is such a thing as truth. All truth claims are exclusionary. Two contradictory things cannot be true.
God didn’t create evil. Your non-defense of your claim is
up to you. I gave you a chance. I do not know why anyone
who presents themselves as believing the Bible would
believe a heresy from 300 BC, but there you have it. Your right to believe whatever you want.
Finally, disagreeing with something is not hate. It would seem you are guilty of what you are objecting too...
I have absolutely no ill feelings toward you at all.
best,
ampu
Hi magritte! How’s my favorite Noachide sister doing these days?
I suggest that anyone who wants to understand Isaiah 45:7 should go back to Hebrew. The KJV is not accurate and leads to believing a falsehood in its translation of this passage. Study it in Hebrew.
Satan does not “follow God’s will”. Everything satan does is within God’s permissive and sovereign will. Can we agree on that, magritte?
That is very different than saying God is commanding Satan to do evil. He is not.
Blessings,
ampu
You wrote and I quote:
“BTBA,
You entered this thread, denied that mormonism is a heresy,
claimed that God created evil and claimed I hate people.”
Please forgive me, but I cannot find where I denied mormonism as a heresys (in fac I never said it was or was not) Likewise, I gave you a Scripture saying that God clained that he created evil or (destruction, mayhem or calamity) all which are totally opposite to love and peace.
And lastly, I never ever said or implied that you personally hate people.
I do apologize for anything I wrote to cause you think this way. But FRiend, you do not know me at all. There is only one person who knows me truly and that is God our Fathe rwho created me. Not even I can know what he knows about me.
Mormons’ theology is based on First Century Christianity, not Fourth Century (man-made) Creeds:
http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com
How can you say a denomination with First Century Christian beliefs is not following the Bible and Jesus’ teachings?
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