Posted on 02/10/2011 7:57:12 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass
Jesus said that the truth will set us free. (John 8:32) However, He did not say that the truth would necessarily be easy to accept. It was painful for me to learn the information that I am about to share with you, but it was also liberating and it led to a closer relationship with God.
As a faithful Catholic, and later as a nun, I practiced Mary worship for many years without realizing it. The prayers and practices were so familiar. They were taught to me by good people, sincere people that I trusted. I prayed rosaries and wore a scapular and engaged in other “devotions” which I honestly thought were good and pleasing to God. Because of my lack of knowledge of the Bible and of Church history, I honestly had no idea that I was actually worshipping Mary.
If modern Catholic teachings and doctrines about Mary are true, then they will not be contrary to Scripture, the writings of the Early Fathers, or the decrees of past popes. For a devout Catholic to question these issues and put them to the test can be painful. It certainly was for me. However, it would be far more painful to have God correct us when we face Him on Judgment Day.
LETTING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SPEAK FOR ITSELF
I believe in letting people speak for themselves. Therefore my primary sources about Catholic doctrines and history come from the Catholic Church.
First and foremost is the official Catechism of the Catholic Church which was written for the purpose of summarizing the essential and basic teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. It was approved by Pope John Paul II in 1992 and the English translation was released in 1994.
(Excerpt) Read more at parkviewgospelhall.com ...
All generations will call you blessed? Not just ‘you are blessed? There’s a significant difference.
That, plus what Christ says to John and Mary, ‘Son, behold your mother’, she was to treat her as if she were his mother. And I suspect most honour their mother.
“Instead we ask her to pray for us.
Haven’t you ever asked anyone to pray for you?”
OK, I appreciate that may be the official position of the Catholic church. And that may be how it is for you. But there are many, many instances where that is not so. Read on this thread for a few examples of direct idolatry.
But also, do you not see how that is praying anyway? You are praying to her to ask that she prays for you? What is your example/reference/support for doing that? Yes I have asked people to pray for me, but not dead people!!!!
(But primarily, I would still rather focus on what we have in common, and believe that we either hang together or shall assuredly hang seperately)
You consider the Septuagint to be the bible? Check out what he’s referring to every time he says, ‘Moses said X, I say, Y’
Related threads:
John MacArthur on Mariolatry
Hail Mary??
Is Mary Co-Redemptress of the World?
Nuts and Bolts - By Tim Staples: Mary Worshippers Need Not Apply
Marian Visionary Warns 2010 Start of Fatima Chastisement (Catholic Caucus ONLY)
Common Sense Mariology
Mary Worship Still Alive in Catholicism
(a) that’s a reach. Worship is worship. Worship is bowing down to something, giving praises to it (”hail thing” etc). That is what worship IS. To try and redfine worship as what you believe is disingenuous.
(b) I would say to not recognize the Bible as the work of God is quite possibly to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
Oops, I thought I fixed that.
Move on, people. This is only YOPIOS.
Thanks you very much for the links.
Now you're twisting things around.
The righteous Jews considered the Old Testament the Word of God, just as evangelicals do today.
They looked to the Old Testament as their authority just as evangelicals do today.
They apostles quoted from it constantly as an authority, just as evangelicals do today.
FYI — Catholics also have the Old Testament! Are you discriminating?
p.s. I like your tagline.
>>My belief is that we Catholics pray to the saints (and Mary) for intercession before the Lord. <<
The following is a sincere question: Since the Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus is our intercessor, why would we need some other saint (Mary or whomever) to be our intercessor? Also, as far as I can tell, when the word “saint” or “saints” appears in the bible, it is always referring to ALL believers, as opposed to a select few.
The Bible is the work of MAN.
The Catholic Church was the first Publisher of the first Bible.
Editing and publishing, what Books to include, which “scripture” to exclude, was based on Catholic TRADITION and the understanding of the Early Church Fathers, who were all CATHOLIC (Universal).
Yes, the Bible was inspired by God, but the Bible is the work of MAN, and is far from perfect in translation.
I will go further:
For any one person to claim a perfect understanding of the Bible or of the Faith, in all matters, for any one person to claim to have a perfect understanding of Christian history and belief, is arrogant and is of the same type of arrogance that Jesus condemned, in the Pharisees!
Because I Love the Bible
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
When Was the Bible Really Written?
Three Reasons for Teaching the Bible [St. Thomas Aquinas]
The Smiting Is Still Implied (God of the OT vs the NT)
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
Friday Fast Fact: The Bible in English
Bible Reading is Central in Conversions to Catholicism in Shangai, Reports Organization
Verses (in Scripture) I Never Saw
5 Myths about 7 Books
Lectionary Statistics - How much of the Bible is included in the Lectionary for Mass? (Popquiz!)
Pope calls Catholics to daily meditation on the Bible
What Are the "Apocrypha?"
The Accuracy of Scripture
US Conference of Catholic Bishops recommendations for Bible study
CNA unveils resource to help Catholics understand the Scriptures
The Dos and Don’ts of Reading the Bible [Ecumenical]
Pope to lead marathon Bible reading on Italian TV
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Books of the Catholic Bible: The Complete Scriptures [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: When Was The Bible Written? [Ecumenical]
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
U.S. among most Bible-literate nations: poll
Bible Lovers Not Defined by Denomination, Politics
Dei Verbum (Catholics and the Bible)
Vatican Offers Rich Online Source of Bible Commentary
Clergy Congregation Takes Bible Online
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: Mary's Last Words
A Bible Teaser For You... (for everyone :-)
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve
Return of Devil's Bible to Prague draws crowds
Doctrinal Concordance of the Bible [What Catholics Believe from the Bible] Catholic Caucus
Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?
Glimpsing Words, Practices, or Beliefs Unique to Catholicism [Bible Trivia]
Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?
Church and the Bible(Caatholic Caucus)
Pope Urges Prayerful Reading of Bible
Catholic Caucus: It's the Church's Bible
How Tradition Gave Us the Bible
The Church or the Bible
It is quite different.
The living communicate with each other freely on a MUTUAL basis, talk to each other as they go through their daily lives and pray for each other as needs arise in their weakness.
We can have no such communication with those who have passed on.
“Saying that one cannot be saved without a bible *is* bible worship. Saying that by scripture alone you are saved, *is* bible worship.
Who’s doing the saving, God or the bible? The Bible is God’s word, not the other way around.”
That’s a terrible straw-man arguement. Noone has ever claimed or implied that the Bible saves anyone.
>>Catholics do NOT worship Mary. Instead we ask her to pray for us.
Haven’t you ever asked anyone to pray for you?<<
Yes. But they are all alive.
“What is your example/reference/support for doing that? Yes I have asked people to pray for me, but not dead people!!!!”
It’s in all 4 Gospels.
Luke 20:37-8
“They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
“What is your example/reference/support for doing that? Yes I have asked people to pray for me, but not dead people!!!!”
It’s in all 4 Gospels.
Luke 20:37-8
“They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
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