Mary Worship? A Study of Catholic Practice and Doctrine

Park View ^ | July 2001 | Mary Ann Collins (A Former Catholic Nun)

[BenKenobi]

All generations will call you blessed? Not just ‘you are blessed? There’s a significant difference.

That, plus what Christ says to John and Mary, ‘Son, behold your mother’, she was to treat her as if she were his mother. And I suspect most honour their mother.

[Christian Engineer Mass]

“Instead we ask her to pray for us.
Haven’t you ever asked anyone to pray for you?”

OK, I appreciate that may be the official position of the Catholic church. And that may be how it is for you. But there are many, many instances where that is not so. Read on this thread for a few examples of direct idolatry.

But also, do you not see how that is praying anyway? You are praying to her to ask that she prays for you? What is your example/reference/support for doing that? Yes I have asked people to pray for me, but not dead people!!!!

(But primarily, I would still rather focus on what we have in common, and believe that we either hang together or shall assuredly hang seperately)

[BenKenobi]

You consider the Septuagint to be the bible? Check out what he’s referring to every time he says, ‘Moses said X, I say, Y’

[Alex Murphy]

"The worship of the Saints is an act of veneration (dulia), not of adoration (latria), which can be given only to God. It is wrong to imagine, as many Protestants do, that by praying to and venerating the Saints we subtract something from the homage we owe to God. The veneration of the Saints and the adoration of God are entirely distinct activities. Moreover, the Saints are the faithful servants of God and intercede with Him on our behalf. By venerating and invoking them, we honour the Giver of all holiness. If anyone, on the other hand, were to disregard the worship of God in favour of devotion to the Saints, he would be making a serious mistake. A person who goes into a church and rushes over to a statue of the Blessed Virgin or of one of the Saints, without giving a thought to the living and real presence of Jesus in the Blessed Eucharist, is developing a false and sentimental piety."
-- Cardinal Antonio Bacci, from his article The Veneration and Imitation of the Saints (also a thread)

Related threads:
John MacArthur on Mariolatry
Hail Mary??
Is Mary Co-Redemptress of the World?
Nuts and Bolts - By Tim Staples: Mary Worshippers Need Not Apply
Marian Visionary Warns 2010 Start of Fatima Chastisement (Catholic Caucus ONLY)
Common Sense Mariology
Mary Worship Still Alive in Catholicism

[Salvation]

Move on, people. This is only YOPIODS.

[Christian Engineer Mass]

(a) that’s a reach. Worship is worship. Worship is bowing down to something, giving praises to it (”hail thing” etc). That is what worship IS. To try and redfine worship as what you believe is disingenuous.

(b) I would say to not recognize the Bible as the work of God is quite possibly to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

[Salvation]

Oops, I thought I fixed that.

Move on, people. This is only YOPIOS.

[Rashputin]

Thanks you very much for the links.

[Siena Dreaming]

Did the Jews call it the “Bible”?

Now you're twisting things around.

The righteous Jews considered the Old Testament the Word of God, just as evangelicals do today.

They looked to the Old Testament as their authority just as evangelicals do today.

They apostles quoted from it constantly as an authority, just as evangelicals do today.

[Salvation]

Glad you are open to new ideas.

 

Pray the Rosary. 

Pray without ceasing.

[Salvation]

FYI — Catholics also have the Old Testament! Are you discriminating?

[Servant of the Cross]

The thanks is to Carpe Cerevisi.

p.s. I like your tagline.

[RobRoy]

>>My belief is that we Catholics pray to the saints (and Mary) for intercession before the Lord. <<

The following is a sincere question: Since the Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus is our intercessor, why would we need some other saint (Mary or whomever) to be our intercessor? Also, as far as I can tell, when the word “saint” or “saints” appears in the bible, it is always referring to ALL believers, as opposed to a select few.

[Kansas58]

You are on the verge of idolatry, then.

The Bible is the work of MAN.

The Catholic Church was the first Publisher of the first Bible.

Editing and publishing, what Books to include, which “scripture” to exclude, was based on Catholic TRADITION and the understanding of the Early Church Fathers, who were all CATHOLIC (Universal).

Yes, the Bible was inspired by God, but the Bible is the work of MAN, and is far from perfect in translation.

I will go further:

For any one person to claim a perfect understanding of the Bible or of the Faith, in all matters, for any one person to claim to have a perfect understanding of Christian history and belief, is arrogant and is of the same type of arrogance that Jesus condemned, in the Pharisees!

[Salvation]

In fact, Catholics have the ENTIRE Old Testament.....this is for your education, please favor me by reading these links.

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

Did Martin Luther Act Infallibly in Defining What Books Belong in the Bible?
History of the Bible (caution: long)
Catholic and Protestant Bibles
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: ON READING THE BIBLE [Catholic Caucus]

Because I Love the Bible
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
When Was the Bible Really Written?
Three Reasons for Teaching the Bible [St. Thomas Aquinas]
The Smiting Is Still Implied (God of the OT vs the NT)
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
Friday Fast Fact: The Bible in English
Bible Reading is Central in Conversions to Catholicism in Shangai, Reports Organization
Verses (in Scripture) I Never Saw
5 Myths about 7 Books

Lectionary Statistics - How much of the Bible is included in the Lectionary for Mass? (Popquiz!)
Pope calls Catholics to daily meditation on the Bible
What Are the "Apocrypha?"
The Accuracy of Scripture
US Conference of Catholic Bishops recommendations for Bible study
CNA unveils resource to help Catholics understand the Scriptures
The Dos and Don’ts of Reading the Bible [Ecumenical]
Pope to lead marathon Bible reading on Italian TV
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Books of the Catholic Bible: The Complete Scriptures [Ecumenical]

Beginning Catholic: When Was The Bible Written? [Ecumenical]
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
U.S. among most Bible-literate nations: poll
Bible Lovers Not Defined by Denomination, Politics
Dei Verbum (Catholics and the Bible)
Vatican Offers Rich Online Source of Bible Commentary
Clergy Congregation Takes Bible Online
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: Mary's Last Words
A Bible Teaser For You... (for everyone :-)
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve

Return of Devil's Bible to Prague draws crowds
Doctrinal Concordance of the Bible [What Catholics Believe from the Bible] Catholic Caucus
Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?
Glimpsing Words, Practices, or Beliefs Unique to Catholicism [Bible Trivia]
Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?
Church and the Bible(Caatholic Caucus)
Pope Urges Prayerful Reading of Bible
Catholic Caucus: It's the Church's Bible
How Tradition Gave Us the Bible
The Church or the Bible

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

[Siena Dreaming]

Asking the Saints to pray for us is really no different from asking the living to pray for us.

It is quite different.

The living communicate with each other freely on a MUTUAL basis, talk to each other as they go through their daily lives and pray for each other as needs arise in their weakness.

We can have no such communication with those who have passed on.

[Turtlepower]

“Saying that one cannot be saved without a bible *is* bible worship. Saying that by scripture alone you are saved, *is* bible worship.

Who’s doing the saving, God or the bible? The Bible is God’s word, not the other way around.”

That’s a terrible straw-man arguement. Noone has ever claimed or implied that the Bible saves anyone.

[RobRoy]

>>Catholics do NOT worship Mary. Instead we ask her to pray for us.

Haven’t you ever asked anyone to pray for you?<<

Yes. But they are all alive.

[BenKenobi]

“What is your example/reference/support for doing that? Yes I have asked people to pray for me, but not dead people!!!!”

It’s in all 4 Gospels.

Luke 20:37-8

“They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

[BenKenobi]

“What is your example/reference/support for doing that? Yes I have asked people to pray for me, but not dead people!!!!”

It’s in all 4 Gospels.

Luke 20:37-8

“They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”