Hm. I’m not sure we’re able to make too much progress. You believe that the One True Church finds its earthly home in Rome, with the Pope as its head, with the episcopacy codifying doctrine. I don’t. Such a presupposition hinders doctrinal reconciliation.
You wrote, “Someone who regarded the Church as human institution only, bearing nothing but the sins and stinks of humanity, could set up a duality and say, ‘Honor one: the Church, or Christ. The Church must decrease, and Christ must increase!’”
I have no idea where that came from. I surely didn’t say that. Of COURSE the Church is the Bride of Christ, and though its members are daily in need of a Savior, we are considered by God to be “kings and priests” (Rev. 5:12). Though we are sinful, we are also set apart by God to be holy. We will be presented to Christ in spotless condition, and some day together enjoy a great heavenly feast. The Church is not a mere human institution (though it is made up of humans); it is conceived by God Himself.
And so it is right to give appropriate honor to the Church — not the Roman Catholic denomination in particular over other expressions of Christ’s Church, but to the Church universal which finds its fount not in Rome but in Heaven.
Again, yes, I do believe that denominations (such as the RCC) should humble themselves and affirm that ALL those whom the Lord has adopted into His family are on equal footing before Him. No particular denomination (such as the RCC) is the prime repository of the Lord’s grace and truth.
When I speak of “Rome and its artifacts,” I’m speaking of the denomination whose headquarters are situated in the Vatican, and the particular traditions observed by those in the RCC that are not explicitly Scriptural. The distinctive garments, the cathedrals, the incense, the formalized confessionals, the extraordinary deference given to Jesus’ mother, the shape of “the host,” the embracing of the Apocrypha as as legitimate as the Old and New Testaments, statues of “saints,” Canonization — those things are not prescribed by Scripture in the way they’re traditionally observed within the RCC.
I could talk of “Baptists and their artifacts” in the same way — organs, altar calls, Bible-thumpers, tent meetings. Those things are not specifically prescribed by Scripture, and are typically associated with denominations such as the Baptist denomination.
Anyway, I suppose our conversation is helpful in that it reminds me how grateful I am for the way God Himself cares for and prunes His Church, for the way He draws out a remnant (see Romans 11:5) from among people who have grown stagnant and wayward.
It's this: I know a few things about your religious beliefs
And yet, I have little basis for knowing anything, confidently, about what you might or must therefore believe.
Now this is paradoxical, because one would think that if a person said "I believe in Christ and I believe in the Bible," a second person could reasonably deduce what they believed in terms of faith and morals.
But one can't. For instance, I don't know whether you think drinking a shot of whiskey is permitted, prohibited for some, or prohibited for all (a controversy which is now raging amongst the Christian FReepers at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2672733/posts.)
I have no clue where you'd stand on that. Or onthe following:
(Omit all the following if it gets tiresome or offensive, and go straight to the bottom)
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. Is Jesus Christ a human person, a divine person with a human nature, or a human being who was made divine? Or something else? Is God one Being? Is God one Person? Is God male? One male? Two males? Three males? Both male and female? Neither? Babies may be / must be / must not be, baptized? Human beings have/don't have a free will? Were some people created/predestined to be damned eternally? Do we inherit our human nature from our parents, or direct from God? Do we inherit our soul from our parents, or direct from God? Can a person attain true knowledge about God via natural human reason? Will a person who has accepted Jesus as their Savior by faith, still be saved even if they become a Muslim, commit suicide-bombing and die unrepentant? Are pious Jews who died before Christ, in heaven? How about pious Jews who died after Christ? Little Muslims who died in childhood? Aborted babies? The babies whom Herod had murdered in Bethlehem? Are there animals in heaven? Will Christians someday be raptured up to meet Jesus in the air? Can God change His mind? Is He changeable? Is His law changeable? Who, if anybody, has the authority to add or remove verses, chapters, or books, to or from the canon of Scripture? (a) first-century AD non-Messianic Jewish rabbis (b) 17th century Christian scholars in Britain (c) Nobody. If there were a dispute about that (say a Torah scroll of Exodus turns up at an archaeological dig, well-preserved, provably older than any existing manuscripts, with a few amazingly clarifying verses replacing what were admittedly disputable/obscure/garbled/fragmentary verses in other versions) who would have the authority to resolve the dispute? (a) the best Hebrew Torah scholars (a) a church council (c) each individual believer (d) nobody? Who, if anybody, had the authority to “change” the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday? Is the religious celebration of Christmas and Easter permitted? Required? Or forbidden? Was Noah a just man? Or is there no man just? Is dismemberment of an unborn baby morally permitted to save the mother's life? In-Vitro fertilization? Torture for the purpose of interrogation? Whipping as a punishment for adultery? Masturbation for the purpose of marital insemination? Remarriage after divorce? Levirate marriage? Killing of civilians via city-targeted “carpet-bombing” in war? May a person do evil that good may come of it? Is pornography OK when provided by a therapist for the purpose of improving marital relations? Consensual anal intercourse of husband and wife? Snake-handling as a demonstration of faith? Removal of non-viable embryo in ectopic pregnancy? Sex-change surgery as a treatment for gender dysphoria? Exorcism as a treatment for self-harming hallucinatory behavior? Is there an unforgivable sin? If so, what is it? Final impenitence? Sorrow for sin that despairs of forgiveness? Dying ignorant of Christ? Accepting Christ but rejecting the Holy Spirit? Apostasy? Is polygamy ever permitted? Concubinage? Execution of captured enemy combatants? Sexual intercourse with female prisoners of war? .
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Did you skip all that? No problem! :o)
I'm not saying this to aggravate you. Nor am I expecting you to answer all these questions. (Though it would be fascinating and thought-provoking if you did!) But the fact is, a person saying "I'm a Christian and I believe in the authority of Scripture alone" doesn't give me any sure information about what they actually believe about right, wrong, God, man, faith, morals, life, death.
Self-identified Bible-believing Christian FReepers could, I’ll bet, be found to answer every one of these questions in every contradictory way imaginable and some which you and I could never have imagined.
Isn’t that strange?
What do you make of it?