[conservativegramma]

Nope not paying any attention to your corrupted scriptures. You never once addressed what the Vatican did by OMITTING ou - NOT in John 6:58. Skimmed right over that didn’t you?

But then you can’t can you? If you want to keep crucifying our Lord over and over and over that’s your problem. I tend to believe what HE said, “IT IS FINISHED!”

Its really interesting watching you guys fall all over each other trying to defend the indefensible.

[Cronos]

It's quite interesting bit about your clique's tactics.

The deliberate deceit, especially when trying to win over new converts. Its deplorable and pathetic. You have a different doctrine, oh yeah, not only different but false.

That’s fine if you want to follow after a false prophet like Calvin thats your business. But when seeking to convert someone at least tell them the truth - stop hiding the “God creates robots to burn in hell” doctrines, or “Jesus died only for some elite brahmins” doctrines, and so on. Be up front about it all instead of trying to hide it under a rug. That’s what we object to - THE DECEIT.

Jesus never operated through lying. But Satan does. That should be a big ole red flag clue that something in your cult isn’t right.

[Cronos]

It’s funny watching you blather on. Why do you keep denying Christ? Why do you keep denying Christ’s own words in John 6?

[Cronos]

Next you’ll be telling me that you don’t believe the Baptism is for remission of sins.

[Cronos]

Do note that the Holy Spirit makes present the mystery of Christ, not the priest.

The Epiclesis ("invocation upon") is the intercession in which the priest begs the Father to send the Holy Spirit the Sanctifier, so that the offerings may become the body and blood of Christ and that the faithful by receiving them, may themselves become a living offering to God.23

In the epiclesis, the Church asks the Father to send his Holy Spirit (or the power of his blessing178) on the bread and wine, so that by his power they may become the body and blood of Jesus Christ and so that those who take part in the Eucharist may be one body and one spirit Do note that the ritual and the belief in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is shared by Catholics, Orthodox, Copts, Armenians, Assyrians, even Lutherans (yes, there is a difference in the 'how' but Lutherans too believe that Christ's body and blood are REALLY present in the Eucharist), so this is not just "a Catholic thing".

This ritual is also something practised by the earliest of all Christians.

You can refer the Didache written in AD 70 (Apostolic Times) which says Assemble on the Lord’s day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist....Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice ...For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, ‘Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations’ by the Eucharistic celebration we already unite ourselves with the heavenly liturgy and anticipate eternal life, when God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

It is called: Eucharist, because it is an action of thanksgiving to God. the Greek words eucharistein (Luke 22:19 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me. --> 1 Cor 11:24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me)

and eulogein (Mt 26:26 26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” --> Mk 14:22 22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body) recall the Jewish blessings that proclaim - especially during a meal - God's works: creation, redemption, and sanctification.

9 The Lord's Supper, because of its connection with the supper which the Lord took with his disciples on the eve of his Passion and because it anticipates the wedding feast of the Lamb in the heavenly Jerusalem (1 Cor 11:20 20 So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, --> Rev 19:9 9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

The Breaking of Bread, because Jesus used this rite, part of a Jewish meat when as master of the table he blessed and distributed the bread (Mt 14:19 19 And he directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people. --> Mt 15:36 36 Then he took the seven loaves and the fish, and when he had given thanks, he broke them and gave them to the disciples, and they in turn to the people.)

It is by this action that his disciples will recognize him after his Resurrection (Lk 24:13-35 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.)

and it is this expression that the first Christians will use to designate their Eucharistic assemblies (Acts 2:42 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. --> Acts 2:46 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts --> Acts 20:7 7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. --> Acts 20:11 Then he went upstairs again and broke bread and ate. After talking until daylight, he left.

by doing so they signified that all who eat the one broken bread, Christ, enter into communion with him and form but one body in him (1 Cor 10:16-17 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf. This is called The Holy Sacrifice because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church's offering. the terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, "sacrifice of praise," spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used (as this is the self-same ONE-time Sacrifice of Christ)

• Heb 13:15; ⇒ Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that openly profess his name.
• 1 Pet 25; ⇒ but the word of the Lord endures forever And this is the word that was preached to you
• Ps 116:13, ⇒ I will lift up the cup of salvation and call on the name of the LORD.
• Ps 116:17; ⇒ I will sacrifice a thank offering to you and call on the name of the LORD.
• Mal 1:11 My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the LORD Almighty.
  
  since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant.
  From the beginning the Church has been faithful to the Lord's command. of the Church of Jerusalem it is written:

  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.... Day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous heart
  
  Acts 2:42-46

[Cronos]

further from the catechism

The liturgy of the Eucharist unfolds according to a fundamental structure which has been preserved throughout the centuries down to our own day. It displays two great parts that form a fundamental unity:

1. the gathering, the liturgy of the Word, with readings, homily and general intercessions;
2. the liturgy of the Eucharist, with the presentation of the bread and wine, the consecratory thanksgiving, and communion

The liturgy of the Word and liturgy of the Eucharist together form "one single act of worship".

The Eucharistic table set for us is the table both of the Word of God and of the Body of the Lord.

Is this not the same movement as the Paschal meal of the risen Jesus with his disciples? Walking with them he explained the Scriptures to them; sitting with them at table "he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. Lk 24:13-35

On the Road to Emmaus

 ¹³ Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles^[a] from Jerusalem. ¹⁴ They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. ¹⁵ As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; ¹⁶ but they were kept from recognizing him.

 ¹⁷ He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”

   They stood still, their faces downcast. ¹⁸ One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

   ¹⁹ “What things?” he asked.

   “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. ²⁰ The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; ²¹ but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. ²² In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning ²³ but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. ²⁴ Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

 ²⁵ He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! ²⁶ Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” ²⁷ And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

 ²⁸ As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. ²⁹ But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

 ³⁰ When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. ³¹ Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. ³² They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

 ³³ They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together ³⁴ and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” ³⁵ Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

[Cronos]

And finally -- do stop repeating the lie about re-c.

The sacrifice of Mass is the same ONE-TIME sacrifice of Calvary that is of all time.

[Cronos]

Christ's sacrifice was a one-time event and will never be repeated. In the mass we participate in this one heavenly offering.

Remember revelations

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne,

Revelations 5:6

This clearly shows that the lamb that was slain is standing at the center of the Throne, standing as though he had been slain (Rev. 5:6).

Jesus is eternally a priest, and a priest’s very nature is to offer sacrifice. In the case of Christ, the eternal sacrifice that he offers is himself. This is why he appears in the book of Revelation as a lamb

For all eternity i.e. outside time He, who is out of time is appealing to the work of the cross, interceding for us (Rom 8:34), and bringing the graces of Calvary to us

The Mass is a participation in this one heavenly offering. The risen Christ becomes present on the altar and offers himself to God as a living sacrifice. Like the Mass, Christ words at the Last Supper are words of sacrifice, "This is my body . . . this is my blood . . . given up for you."

[Cronos]

Christ's sacrifice was a one-time event and will never be repeated. In the mass we participate in this one heavenly offering.

Remember revelations

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne,

Revelations 5:6

This clearly shows that the lamb that was slain is standing at the center of the Throne, standing as though he had been slain (Rev. 5:6).

Jesus is eternally a priest, and a priest’s very nature is to offer sacrifice. In the case of Christ, the eternal sacrifice that he offers is himself. This is why he appears in the book of Revelation as a lamb

For all eternity i.e. outside time He, who is out of time is appealing to the work of the cross, interceding for us (Rom 8:34), and bringing the graces of Calvary to us

The Mass is a participation in this one heavenly offering. The risen Christ becomes present on the altar and offers himself to God as a living sacrifice. Like the Mass, Christ words at the Last Supper are words of sacrifice, "This is my body . . . this is my blood . . . given up for you."
To simplify it for you

• Sacrifice of the Christ = one time event in our history
• God exists out of time
• Christ, the High Priest offered a sacrifice in time, Himself, God exists out of time, so to God, it appears as the eternal sacrifice on the Cross -- to us, it is a one-time event, which has happened ONCE.
• That is why in Revelation, we see the sacrifice as God sees it -- a lamb, standing as though he had been slain (Rev. 5:6).
• Christ appears in heaven in the state of a victim not because he still needs to suffer but because for all eternity he re-presents himself to God appealing to the work of the cross, interceding for us (Rom 8:34), and bringing the graces of Calvary to us.
• The Mass is a participation in this one heavenly offering.<
• Note -- it is not the re-sacrifice of Christ, but the participation in the one-time sacrifice that has already happened
• Christ's death on the cross was propitiatory and that is why God sees it as in revelation, a lamb standing proudly, giving of his blood, the Eucharist

[Cronos]

To make it clear to you the mass is taking part in what never ends: the offering of Christ to the Father for our sake (Heb 7:25, 9:24).

Christ’s bloody sacrifice on Calvary took place once, and it will never be repeated.Jesus’ offering was perfect, efficacious, and eternal.

Jesus is eternally a priest, and a priest’s very nature is to offer sacrifice.

In the case of Christ, the eternal sacrifice that he offers is himself. This is why he appears in the book of Revelation as a lamb, standing as though he had been slain (Revelations 5:6).

For all eternity i.e. outside time He, who is out of time is appealing to the work of the cross, interceding for us (Rom 8:34), and bringing the graces of Calvary to us.

Now it is clear that The difference between Christ’s death on the cross—the event—and the Eucharist—the sacrament—is the difference between history and liturgy.

The historical event happened once and it will never again be repeated (Heb. 9:25–26). The liturgical sacrament, however, not only keeps the past from being forgotten; through it the Eucharist of history—Jesus’ passion and death—is made present again.