Posted on 01/22/2011 2:19:40 PM PST by Colofornian
* Origins
o Based on entirely unevidenced stories
o Doctrines created and evolved over time, sometimes changing
* Founders
o Known for their extreme desire for wealth
o Known for telling stories and lies
o Convicted and imprisoned for illegal activities
o Died during their trouble with the law
* Legal troubles
o Involved in many illegal activities, in many cases as part of official organization doctrine and practices
o Support destruction of outsiders, especially apostates (blood atonement, shunning, "fair game")
o Legal troubles led to changes in doctrine (at least on the surface, note polygamy and "fair game")
* Teachings
o Pre- and post-mortal existence
o Eternal progression (godhood, clear thetan)
o Only way to know truth is to experience it yourself
o Christianity, Bible only partly true
o Focus on thriving and happiness in present life rather than the afterlife or eternal life
o "Salvation" by works
o Give "milk" instead of "meat"
o Official endorsement of lying about or avoiding discussion of controversial doctrines, especially origin of man and key figures (Heavenly Father, Xenu, spirit children, thetans, etc)
o Levels can be achieved (Operating Thetan levels, temple Mormons, eternal progression, different kingdoms)
o Resistance is dismissed as proof/evidence of validity
* Behavior
o Persecution complex
o Label and treat opposition as evil enemies ("Antis", "Suppressive Persons")
The JURY would like to see some EVIDENCE.
Got any; or are you just an ACCUSER?
I am REBUKING a demon: just like the BIBLE says to do.
Not exactly. See, you would have to follow the top path in your diagram. Do all of those things on the sign posts and then some. The problem though is that many of those things aren't Biblical [as many of us know].
Your dilemma begins when you join but your spouse doesn't. How do you comply with the temple marriage "requirement" to qualify for the celestial kingdom. Note I used the word "qualify".
So let’s say you've done all those things, and much more, the problem is, the mormons have taught that you need Joe Smith’s approval and once you get to the judgement seat, your worthiness will be judged and the mormon christ will decide whether or not to "pay the balance" of grace for you to enter the celestial kingdom, assuming of course that you were sealed in the temple to your spouse. [This so-called “straight and narrow path” is starting to have some twists and turns in it.] Now, how do the mormons address this little hiccup in their doctrine? Well, if manage to get your spouse converted and sealed to you no problem, just get busy doing all that “stuff”. But, if one of you fails to keep the commandments of the endowment and sealing, then you are promised that will be married off to a “righteous eternal companion for eternity”. Hmmm…
For those who don’t manage to convert their spouse, hmmm, ooopsie, no celestial kingdom for you. So sorry. All those promises we made to you about living with god, not gonna happen. Or is it? Read on.
Here we have quote from an “apostle of the lord”, but we’ll be told it’s only “his opinion” since it’s in the JOD and those are “supposedly supposed to be ignored”, but it’s valuable insight into what the leaders of the mormon church believe and teach, regardless of whether the mormons want to claim it as “doctrine”. But wait, don’t mormon apostles represent and speak on behalf of the mormon church? Don’t they use the JOD’s as references in their General Conference talks to the faithful? Hmmm, this just keeps getting more complicated, anyway onward and upward;
LDS Apostle Erastus Snow preached the following on Sunday, Oct. 4, 1857:
" Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands?... Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? "What!—my husband to be my lord?" I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never got into the celestial kingdom [during the temple ceremony] without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant. “(Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 291)
Without that "ordinance", nope, no way, it ain't gonna happen.
I wouldn’t be so sure….
”But what of the many mature members of the Church who are not married? Through no failing of their own, they deal with the trials of life alone. Be we all reminded that, in the Lord’s own way and time, no blessings will be withheld from His faithful Saints. The Lord will judge and reward each individual according to heartfelt desire as well as deed.
Ahh, but wait, there’s another way;
After both of you die, and your errant spouse gets necrobaptized, your “mormon relatives” [if you have any] can seal you to him by “proxy”. Then your errant spouse will have “the chance” in the period between death and resurrection to accept or reject the ordinances. [Hmm, so if I’m in the spirit prison and a spirit missionary comes down and says, “hey, we baptized you, endowed you and sealed you to your wife. Do you accept or reject?” What do you think I’m going to do?]
Either way, if you've been faithful, you will have been sealed and will be able to receive the lowest degree of celestial glory. Huh? So now we have “degrees of glory” within the celestial kingdom. What are the three degrees of glory in the celestial kingdom? Oh my. My head is starting to hurt from trying to keep all of this straight. I thought the “straight and narrow” was just that.
But here’s something that I find quite conflicting.
All children sealed to parents in the holy temples will inherit the celestial kingdom regardless to their degree of compliance with the principles of the gospel. As reported by Elder Orson F. Whitney—
“The Prophet Joseph Smith declared-and he never taught more comforting doctrine-that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God” (Elder Orson F. Whitney, Conference Report, April 1929, Third Day Morning Meeting, p.110).
Really?, A child born to endowed, sealed parents, regardless of their degree of compliance with the principles of the gospel is GUARANTEED the celestial kingdom. Just wow! How "convenient" is that?
There is no surety in mormonism as it relates to personal exaltation. Keyword there is "personal". In mormonism, it's about working things for PERSONAL glory, not God's glory. You are working to ensure your “personal” exaltation, which is supposed to bring glory to God, but I don’t see how that works if what you’re doing is essentially “banking” ordinances and works to get the balance sheet in your favor.
If you don't join, but are otherwise a good Christian or person, who did good but did not accept Mormonism, terrestrial kingdom for you. Many members of the mormon church, who were not as dedicated as they could have been, will also go the terrestial.
The rest of us [sons of perdition, apostates, evil doers, etc.] we get the telestial or in my case, OUTER DARKNESS!
But you know what the Bible says about all of this?
Simply this; Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in HEAVEN.
So all of those “requirements” the mormons want you to meet in order to attain the celestial kingdom and to be able to dwell with God are superfluous. God has already said you will not be married in heaven.
Seriously, did Constantine and the evil ne’er do wells of the Council of Nicea remove all of that confusing mormon stuff and replace it with something so simple to trick us? That’s what the mormons claim and want us to believe.
Maybe.
The Answer is out there.
--PDwannabee(I've GIVEN you the links; yet you want ME to do the work FOR you?)
PD, I really would like to call you my friend...yet the way you go around & lambast others, it's getting difficult.
I mean, look at that phrase: "anti-Mormon propaganda." That's literally the 37th time you've thrown that at people on FR Webs in '11.
(The race is on, tho, as to which word will win the 2011 race -- "anti" or "propaganda/propagandist" -- you've used each of those words 60 times...if you really want the prize of being of the most "anti-anti," I'm not sure a 2.5 daily average will cut it :) )
Really, PD...while those stats above are spot-on reality...my point is this: You tell us all the time that the argument's been wrung out 1,000 times elsewhere.
Well, I'm just using your same argument back: You've probably called each of us "anti"..."propagandist"..."obsessed" 1,000 times, too elsewhere.
You've regurgitated it & you've regurgitated it.
So, if you're right on the other stuff. That it's already been addressed 1,000 times elsewhere. Then why don't you apply your own standards to yourself?
You've now regurgitated the name-calling & labels you've hurled at us "1,000 times" -- apparently thinking that represents some "kindler, gentler" Mormonism or something. -- why don't you simply save yourself some time & just link to a comment you made on a previous thread.
Really. I'm interested in the stewardship of your time.
Or, you can keep up the name-calling. (It's a Free Republic). I'm gonna love you, anyway, PD. You're worth loving. You say you were once one of our non-denominational Christian brethren. You say you were once one of our Baptist Christian brethren. You say you were once one of our Methodist Christian brethren. I haven't given up on you yet.
Part of my spirit wants to say to you, "Hey, if you really believed what Lds "prophets" Joseph Smith & Joseph Fielding Smith said was the most important thing for you to do, then why aren't you showing that level of obedience -- why are you out there 24/7 in fulfilling the baptism-of-the-dead Smith mandate?
I mean, didn't Joseph Fielding Smith (The Way to Perfection, pp. 153-154), say:
“But greater than all this, so far as our individual responsibilities are concerned, the greatest is to become saviors, in our lesser degree which is assigned us, for the dead who have died without a knowledge of the Gospel. Joseph Smith said, ‘The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us, is to seek after our dead’…It will suffice here to say that the Lord has placed upon us this responsibility of seeing that our dead receive the blessings of the Gospel. Said Joseph Smith: ‘Those saints who neglect it, in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.’”
PD, you don't want to put your own "Mormon salvation" at risk, do you?
PD, you don't want to shirt your own "responsibility of seeing that the dead" are ritualized, Mormon-style, do you?
PD, you don't want to dishonor these two Smith "prophets" about the "greater...individual responsibilities" & fail to convert the dead, do you?
I mean, c'mon...Trying to reach the lurkers as you are -- when all you do is play lousy, name-calling defense -- that's not very winsome. At least with a corpse, you don't get any negative feedback...or somebody putting up "stiff" resistance...Well...they can't help it if they're "stiff" sometimes, right? :)
But the other urgent part of me wants you to hang around...in the true hope you would come to know the only true God -- and His Son whom He Has sent (John 17:3 paraphrase).
Love ya, PD!
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AoF #3
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
or...
Mosiah 3:21
And behold, when that time cometh, none shall be found blameless before God, except it be little children, only through repentance and faith on the name of the Lord God Omnipotent.
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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHICHAPTER 224 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
Or even HERE:
1 Timothy 3:2-3
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.Titus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTSSECTION 13251–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
What? You haven't heard of a sick wrap?
"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book"
Here's a whopper...
"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet . . . "
Here's another....
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods,"
And you talk about lying demons????
My God have mercy on you.......
Mosiah 3: 7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.
Yes; that is CERTAINLY a LIE all right!!
Luke 22:44
King James Bible
And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
After the Lord redeems you it will depends what you do with your mortal life if you stay on the path.
thank you for an interesting peek at the confused, twisted distorted views you harbor in towards the LDS.
Welcome to MORMONism 101!
While we are waiting to start; enjoy the artwork on our walls.
If some of it seems shifty to you, just look at it real close and it will stop moving,
but another location will then start to crawl on you.
Do NOT think our DOCTRINE is this way!
So then: You can't answer the question; eh?
Now that you have a guarantee you should be filled with sunshine in your soul!
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages,
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
FAIRlds does NOT lead to LIFE!
It’s telling the number of times you used the word “more”. Because people have not accepted the “finished” work of Christ this leaves them wide open for “another Gospel” , which there are many to offer to those who seek beyond the boundaries Christ has set.
Jesus warned many times against following other teachings (another gospel) than those He has given, as well as those who are their targets.
“They are the kind who worm their way into homes.....and gain control over weakwilled women.......always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.”
“These men oppose the truth-men of depraved minds-who as far as the faith is concerned are rejected....their folly will be clear to everyone”.
(There is no need for “more”)
“ALL scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work”.
2 Tim: 3
That's blasphemy...in my book.
That's sick.....
There is that love again.
R that statement of yours about God's Word is blasphemy.
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