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To: Cronos
Sorry Cronos but it is NOT a lie. It is imbedded in Catholic doctrine and can be read on New Advent. Here is a comparison of the Reformed version and the Catholic version of the atonement is according to the Catholic website, "Called to Communion". Keep in mind the typical bias interpretation of the text like "God the Father hated, cursed and damned His Son, who was evil in the Father’s sight on account of all the sins of the elect".


1,165 posted on 01/28/2011 1:51:48 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Thank you for the civil conversation and civil post.

My source is The Catechism
"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous." (Rom 5:19)

By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant, who "makes himself an offering for sin", when "he bore the sin of many", and who "shall make many to be accounted righteous", for "he shall bear their iniquities".

Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father.

1,167 posted on 01/28/2011 2:09:13 AM PST by Cronos
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To: HarleyD
I'm not sure where the poster got his opinions from, as the Catechism and Church beliefs are CLEAR that Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father

and the author's opinon does not seem to deny the atonement nature, only claiming that this is NOT just wrath but his gif below that article clears things up, IMHO as it points out self-sacrifice of Christ


This post seems to neglect to mention (but does not deny) the atonement nature of Jesus Christ's sacrifice,

But the article (linked here) goes on to say
One problem with the Reformed conception is that it would either make the Father guilty of the greatest evil of all time (pouring out the punishment for all sin on an innocent man, knowing that he is innocent), or if Christ were truly guilty and deserved all that punishment, then His suffering would be of no benefit to us.

1,168 posted on 01/28/2011 2:19:48 AM PST by Cronos
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To: HarleyD
Church beliefs are CLEAR that Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father

and the author's opinon does not seem to deny the atonement nature, only claiming that this is NOT just wrath

the article (linked here) goes on to say
A second problem with the Reformed conception is the following dilemma. If God the Father was pouring out His wrath on the Second Person of the Trinity, then God was divided against Himself, God the Father hating His own Word.

God could hate the Son only if the Son were another being, that is, if polytheism or Arianism were true.

But if God loved the Son, then it must be another person (besides the Son) whom God was hating during Christ’s Passion. And hence that entails Nestorianism, i.e. that Christ was two persons, one divine and the other human. He loved the divine Son but hated the human Jesus.

Hence the Reformed conception conflicts with the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity

1,169 posted on 01/28/2011 2:20:53 AM PST by Cronos
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To: All
Church beliefs are CLEAR that Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father

and the author's opinon does not seem to deny the atonement nature, only claiming that this is NOT just wrath.
In fact, at the bottom, he clarifies that this WAS an atonement

From the website called to communion goes on to say
One question, from the Reformed point of view, is: How then were our sins paid for, if Christ was not punished by the Father? Christ made atonement for the sins of all men by offering to God a sacrifice of love that was more pleasing to the Father than the combined sins of all men of all time are displeasing to Him. Hence through the cross Christ merited grace for the salvation of all men. Those who refuse His grace do not do so because Christ did not die for them or did not win sufficient grace for them on the cross, but because of their own free choice.
Please do Note -- your statement in post 962 It no longer believes in the atonement of Christ. is false.

Even this very website you cite states that the author believes in an atonment, while the catechism says Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father

1,170 posted on 01/28/2011 2:30:48 AM PST by Cronos
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