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To: Iscool
The Hebrew word for "memorial" is zikaron and it has a similar connotation to anamnesis in Greek culture. It is more than mental recollection. The celebration of the Passover was believed to involve a participation in the original exodus from Egypt. The purpose of this being an annual and perpetual event for the children of Israel was that every generation could experience the liberation from slavery that the first generation in Egypt had experienced. Thus, zikaron connotes a participation in an event of the past rather than simply a mental recollection of that event.

Whether you approach this question from the Greek or Hebrew side, the result supports the notion of the Real Presence. When Paul quotes Jesus as saying eis ten emen anamnesin, he understands the meaning both in Greek and Hebrew senses. When Jesus said, "do this eis ten emen anamensin," he was not saying to simply remember him. He was telling his twelve apostles to perform the same actions that he did in order to bring the reality of him back to this world.
1,096 posted on 01/27/2011 9:48:31 PM PST by Cronos
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To: Cronos; Iscool
The Hebrew word for "memorial" is zikaron and it has a similar connotation to anamnesis in Greek culture. It is more than mental recollection. The celebration of the Passover was believed to involve a participation in the original exodus from Egypt. The purpose of this being an annual and perpetual event for the children of Israel was that every generation could experience the liberation from slavery that the first generation in Egypt had experienced. Thus, zikaron connotes a participation in an event of the past rather than simply a mental recollection of that event.

Whether you approach this question from the Greek or Hebrew side, the result supports the notion of the Real Presence. When Paul quotes Jesus as saying eis ten emen anamnesin, he understands the meaning both in Greek and Hebrew senses. When Jesus said, "do this eis ten emen anamensin," he was not saying to simply remember him. He was telling his twelve apostles to perform the same actions that he did in order to bring the reality of him back to this world.

You argument refutes itself. The Israelites, when celebrating the Passover, certainly did not understand themselves to be actually participating in the event again. They knew that the references to keeping the Passover were symbolic.

Further, your argument for zikrown and anamnesis is wrong. Neither of them has the connotation of "participation" in an event again, at least not beyond that of mental recollection with a view towards identification with those who went through the original event. That is simply something that Catholicism tries to "read into" the issue after the fact. But it has no basis in the actual philological, contextual, or lexical meanings of either word, as they are used in Scripture.

The "Real Presence" is emphatically NOT supported by these texts.

1,193 posted on 01/28/2011 6:39:33 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (When evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will believe in abject nonsense.)
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