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To: James C. Bennett
I will make this my last reply to you, so you don't feel obliged to continue repeating your reasoning, but if you do continue, so be it.

You are trying desperately to establish the axiom that the Creator must have temporal limits else The Creator cannot create. I am asserting that The Creator created time, so the act of creating is not itself a temporally limited 'thing'. You come back that: "Change is impossible without time. Even for a god." In so doing, you pose your own paradox through your circular reasoning, i.e. 'in time and space change cannot occur without time, the event of creating time is an event along a temporal chain, therefore God must be on the temporal chain before creating time, which is paradoxical.'

Sorry, you cannot expect me to buy your paradox when it is a creation of your own devising, meant to refute that which you hold to be paradoxical. You are doing exactly what Dawkins cleverly tried to do in the video to which you linked. Perhaps someone more naive will like your approach. I find it disingenuous at best, so I will leave you to your enigma.

763 posted on 01/22/2011 12:57:08 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN; kosta50

You’re desperately trying to establish that change can occur without time.

For as long as you persist in trying that, you’ll fail. Change cannot happen without time. As simple as that.

You believe that an entity has the power to arbitrarily remove time while continuing to cause change. This is the absurdity I’ve pointed out to you that you refuse to acknowledge, as I think you’re dogma prevents you from letting you do it. To refuse to acknowledge it in the face of this clear explanation requires superstition on the part of the one who believes that change is possible in the absence of time.


764 posted on 01/22/2011 1:04:15 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: MHGinTN; James C. Bennett
You are trying desperately to establish the axiom that the Creator must have temporal limits else The Creator cannot

I don't think JCB is trying to that at all. He correctly observes that God is not changeless, but would have to change in order to start creating. Without time there can be no "start", no beginning.

779 posted on 01/22/2011 10:13:55 PM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit...give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- Mithral prayer)
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