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To: Dutchboy88
To mention just a few of the culprits, the period known as the Pornocracy gave rise to all kinds of this activity. Sergius III took a 15 year old concubine, Innocent VIII (there is an oxymoron, or perhaps just a moron) had illegitimate children all over the place and Paul III had at least 4 illegitimate children. The list is long and ugly. But, if you are unaware of these fellows, it may explain why you might be unaware of the sponsored whorehouses. Perhaps Rome scrubs its history.

I don't necessarily pay that much attention to recent Protestant allusions or names for things or events which are known under their original names. The original name in Latin meant Dark Ages, not the recently coined Pornocracy (Wiki really did assist me for once). We are not unaware, we prefer to call things as they are.

But, there were many such activities during the early part of the Reformation as Reformers called out such evil. It was during this time tunnels between the monastaries and nunneries were discovered. Just google “sexually active priests” or “tunnels between monastaries and convents” and you will get a passel of hits. To be fair, many so-called Protestant groups have developed their own illicit activities.

To be fair, sure. I condemn these Catholic incidents, as you may or may not be aware.

But, speaking of links, please send one where the Reformation’s focus was on “navels”.

Reading the Institutes through, one is struck by the amount of navel gazing went into it. But even Martin Luther, once one goes beyond the 95 Theses, is remarkably self-absorbed, at least until he understood his mortality and began along the road of repentence (did he ever get there? The evidence is mixed).

75 posted on 01/20/2011 4:30:07 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr; Cronos
"Reading the Institutes through, one is struck by the amount of navel gazing went into it. But even Martin Luther, once one goes beyond the 95 Theses, is remarkably self-absorbed, at least until he understood his mortality and began along the road of repentence (did he ever get there? The evidence is mixed)."

Really? "Navel gazing"? I have a copy at home and am interested in the portion you consider "Navel gazing". No question Calvin drilled on the damage sin has wreaked, the broken natures of man at war with God and the desparate need for God to reach to man, but I would hardly consider this navel gazing. Perhaps more such "navel gazing" needs to be done by Rome and then they might abandon their Semi-Pelagian heresies.

And, speaking of Semi-Pelagianism, when you get an opportunity, check Luther's "Bondage of the Will". Here is the "hingepin" of the Reformation, one of his watershed works wherein he set out robust Augustinianism from the weak Semi-Pelagianism of Erasmus (as he was asked to speak for the RCC in his "Diatribe").

Hopefully, Luther never repented from this position, although his consubstantiation moved dangerously close to the transubstantiation he was originally taught to embrace. Old habits die hard.

As I've mentioned, that's why we don't venerate men and have no heroes. None. That God used men to produce His Word, the Scriptures, does not mean that the men themselves warrant reverence any more than the sun does, even though God made both.

But, this whole line of discussion came from a post that implied there was something remarkable about Holland now descending into moral obliviion and simultaneiously returning to Catholicism. I was struggling to understand anything positive the writer intended to prove with this statistic. He/she claimed that the country was tiring of Reformed theology and was going home. Such argument is not only laughable, but if it represents the general use of logic from within the RCC, may tip us off why Holland is concurrently descending. Reality is not on the radar screen. I ping him/her here only out of courtesy.

76 posted on 01/21/2011 8:58:08 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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