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To: Cronos

“Not trying to gotcha but that is defining salvation by faith AND works.”

As James writes in James 2:14-26. He makes the point that faith in demonstrated by actions. If your brother is hungry and cold you don’t say, “Have faith” and do nothing for him.

Rahab had heard of the victories of the Israelites but it was her actions that saved her life and that of her family.

“Even in this case, Constantine could arguably be said to have done the will of The Father to stop the persecution of Christians”

So Jesus could stop the persecution of his followers. Jesus more over could call upon legions of angels to assist him in so doing. But he didn’t.

Those who did “many wonderful works” Jesus called them workers of iniquity or lawlessness. Why?

They had cast out demons in his name, they had prophesied in his name, they had recognized him as Lord, but he says,

“I NEVER knew you Get away from me”

He doesn’t call their works “wonderful” he calls them iniquity because he didn’t authorize what they did or how they did it, “He never knew them”, he didn’t recognize them as acting in his name right from the beginning. They were adjudged by him as “lawless” since they weren’t doing the will of his father nor in the way He wanted it done.

“He was baptised on his death-bed, that’s a fast. He most likely belived this washed away his sins. He believed that his beliefs were fine and yet all his sins would be washed away at his baptism and he’d enter into heaven pure. Note, I’m just pointing out what Constantine believed.”

He was mistaken according to what I understand the Scriptures say about repentance.

As for the conversion of Europe and the Mediterranean how much of that was done by force? Yet never did Christ teach his followers to spread the word by the power of Caesar.
He wouldn’t let others defend him with force of arms either as the ear chopping incident in Gethsemane.

“Seriously — why do you think Constantine was a worker of lawlessness any more than most rulers right up until post WWII? And I mean this as a historical question, not a religious one.”

It has to be a religious question as Jesus was discussing the doing of his fathers will and the ones he called workers of iniquity or lawlessness were not called such because they broke some secular law.

Constantine more a worker a worker of lawlessness? Well you did call what he did “a starting boulder”.


990 posted on 01/19/2011 12:36:48 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
If your brother is hungry and cold you don’t say, “Have faith” and do nothing for him.

I agree with you

“Even in this case, Constantine could arguably be said to have done the will of The Father to stop the persecution of Christians”
So Jesus could stop the persecution of his followers. Jesus more over could call upon legions of angels to assist him in so doing. But he didn’t.
-- yes, He could have done anything, but He chose Constantine as a tool and that's a fact.

His actions to stop the persecution of Christians were arguably the will of the Father. Constantine's other actions... well.. definitely not

He was mistaken according to what I understand the Scriptures say about repentance. --> Perhaps, that's a different discussion, but the key is what Constantine believed and He most likely belived this washed away his sins. He believed that his beliefs were fine and yet all his sins would be washed away at his baptism and he’d enter into heaven pure. Note, I’m just pointing out what Constantine believed -- he was baptised on his death-bed, that's a fact

As for the conversion of Europe and the Mediterranean how much of that was done by force?
very little. The peoples of the Western and Eastern Roman and PArtian Empires converted peacefully. The Irish and Anglo-Saxons converted peacefully. The Bulgarians, Rusyns,Czechs, Poles, Franks, Scandanavians/Vikings all were converted peacefully. Those who were forcibly converted were Saxons in Saxony, the Latvians and Estonians. The Krzyżacy i.e. Teutonic Knights tried to convert the Lithuanians but they converted of their own accord when Jagiello married the Polish princess Jadwiga to form the start of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
1,001 posted on 01/19/2011 4:45:40 AM PST by Cronos (Bobby Jindal 2012)
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