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To: impimp1
Can you give an example of a non-ex-cathedra Papal Bull that offends your sensibilities?

For one, Unam Sanctam which states: Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff

That is not found in Scripture and, in fact, severely contradicts Scripture that says faith in Jesus Christ as Savior is what is necessary for salvation.

The bull also declared that the Church must be united, that the Pope was the sole and absolute head of the Church:

Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster.

From Scripture we know that the head of the body of Christ is of course Jesus Christ and not a mere man on earth. There are many, many other dogmas and doctrines with which I disagree, but it is late and bed is calling my name. I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic and except for many of the invented doctrines, I still hold to the same doctrines that all true Christians have in common, I just do not "belong" to the Catholic Church anymore - the catholic, maybe, but not the Catholic. Good nite!

658 posted on 01/17/2011 10:55:18 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums; impimp1
Of course, you take it out of context of it's historical intent. This was written in 1302 to the King of France about the dispute between the papacy and Philip the Fair of France (who was in the midst of the 100 years war with the Norman rulers of England and Western France). This also included the time with Avignon rises to prominence as the French king's attempt to keep the spiritual and temporal under his thumb. This is 1302, pre-Reformation and directed at temporal rulers who sought spiritual control of their subjects as well as temporal.

King Philip responded in a predictable way, he tried to have the Pope killed. Apparently he was not impressed with the legal arguments.

This was preceded by Ausculta Fill, a letter addressed December 5, 1301, by Pope Boniface VIII to Philip the Fair, King of France. Philip was at enmity with the pope. Under pretext of his royal rights, he conferred benefices, and appointed bishops to sees, regardless of papal authority. He drove from their sees those bishops who, in opposition to his will, remained faithful to the pope. This letter is couched in firm but paternal terms. It points out the evils the king has brought to his kingdom, to Church and State; invites him to do penance and to mend his ways. It was unheeded by the king, and was soon followed by the famous Bull "Unam Sanctam". this encyclical was written long before the reformation when all Western Christians were Catholic
671 posted on 01/18/2011 1:39:10 AM PST by Cronos (Bobby Jindal 2012)
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To: boatbums; impimp1
Furthermore, this bull is in the historical context aimed at Philip the Fair's attempt to bring together Church and State under his thumb (which he did with Avignon). Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads (King and Pope) -- Christ is the spiritual head of the Church, the bishop of rome remains just the steward, the administrator/shepherd on earth. The statements concerning the relations between the spiritual and the secular power are of a purely historical character, so far as they do not refer to the nature of the spiritual power, and are based on the actual conditions of medieval Western Europe.

Philip the fair


Philip arrested Jews so he could seize their assets to accommodate the inflated costs of modern warfare: he expelled them from his French territories on 22 July 1306 (see The Great Exile of 1306). His financial victims also included Lombard bankers and rich abbots. He was condemned by the Church for his spendthrift lifestyle. He debased the coinage. When he also levied taxes on the French clergy of one half their annual income, he caused an uproar within the Roman Catholic Church and the papacy, prompting Pope Boniface VIII to issue the Bull Clericis laicos, forbidding the transference of any church property to the French Crown and prompting a drawn-out diplomatic battle with the King. In order to condemn the pope, Philip convoked an assembly of bishops, nobles and grand bourgeois of Paris,

. Philip emerged victorious, after having sent his agent William Nogaret to arrest Boniface at Anagni, when the French archbishop Bertrand de Goth was elected pope as Clement V and the official seat of the papacy moved to Avignon, an enclave surrounded by French territories

Remember also that shepherds are held to a higher standard, which is why Boniface VIII in Dante's Divina Commedia placed him in a circle of Hell with King Philip IV of France.

on September 7, 1303, an army led by Nogaret and Sciarra Colonna of the Colonna family surprised Boniface at his retreat in Anagni. The King and the Colonnas demanded that he resign, to which Boniface VIII responded that he would "sooner die". In response, Colonna hit Boniface, a "slap" that is still remembered in the local lore of Anagni.

Boniface was beaten badly and nearly executed but was released from captivity after three days. He died of kidney stones and humiliation on October 11, 1303
672 posted on 01/18/2011 1:54:44 AM PST by Cronos (Bobby Jindal 2012)
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