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To: CynicalBear
One more time just special for you. Irenaeus was second century which as you know was more the 180 years ago.
Irenaeus
Against Heresies
Book 5, Chapter 29, Paragraph 1
And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” Matt. xxiv. 21. For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

Irenaeus was a post-tribulationist. Your quote is way out of context. Here is the context:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-Nicene_Fathers/Volume_I/IRENAEUS/Against_Heresies:_Book_V/Chapter_XXIX.

The Church is caught up in the end, not pre-tribulation. Here is a passage from chapter 26 in the same book:

It is manifest, therefore, that of these [potentates], he who is to come shall slay three, and subject the remainder to his power, and that he shall be himself the eighth among them. And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight.

The Church will be put to flight during the tribulation. Clearly, Irenaeus was a post-tribulationist.

Pseudo-Ephraem's Pre Tribulation Rapture Statement (c. 374-627) A Sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem (section 2)

This is another pretrib rapture hoax quotation which I previously dealt with in post 273 of this thread.

Again I repeat, you have nothing of substance to support the 180-year-old pretrib rapture theory.

407 posted on 01/17/2011 11:22:34 AM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor
>>This is another pretrib rapture hoax quotation which I previously dealt with in post 273 of this thread.<<

No, you did not deal with it in post 273. You gave a convoluted diatribe trying to make his words say something other then what they clearly say. You people try to do that all the time. Either you start throwing up straw dogs or attempt to claim that translations were done wrong or something else.

Let’s let the words speak for themselves.

"All the saints and elect of God are gathered together >b which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins."

He specifically states, in so many words, that it is “before the tribulation” and no amount of double speak on your part can change the words.

410 posted on 01/17/2011 11:38:03 AM PST by CynicalBear
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