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To: Cronos

1Cor 11:23-26 also explains the fallacy of transubstantiation.

John 6:26-69 well describes it. If transubstantiation were sound doctrine, there would have been no reference to the manna as being insufficient for life, for it also could have served that role.

On the contrary, we take of His body, the bread of life, or flesh, which God the Father provided, the living bread which came down from Heaven, then we have eternal life.

If we drink of the cup, His blood, i.e. His saving work on the Cross of His death, then we also have fellowship with Him.

As often as we eat or intake Him, we also are to do these things in remembrance of Him. 1stJohn 1:9 follows easily and matches well with the Eucharist.

Obviously to those whom the Father has drawn to the Son, it isn’t the physical consumption without the spiritual metaphor which saves, as the references to the manna and Paul’s admonition of those consuming the Eucharist because they were physically hungry, but now some were sickly (1Cor 11:30)


3,316 posted on 02/06/2011 2:02:54 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr
1Cor 11:23-26 does nothing of that sort,
23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
And this is clear -- this is the NEW Covenant, and plese note that you cannot read it in isolation without reading verses 27-29

1 Cor 11:27-29
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.
Now, you can not be guilty of sinning against the BODY and BLOOD of the Lord if you actually only Bread, no matter how symbolic. This is confirmed in Paul's (1 Cor. 10:16)
6 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?
How clear can Paul get? "The bread IS a participation in the body of Christ" and "who eats the bread... will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord" This is not just mere bread and wine anymore. This is the body and blood of Christ.

This cannot be a metaphor, because of the Words of JESUS himself --
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.
You cannot say that this was just bread and wine of that this is a metphor for coming and having faith in the Lord or some kind of metphor for believing in Christ because of the reaction of the Jews and the very language -- to eat one's flesh and drink the blood means to do violence on some one. You see it even in Hindi where a threat is "Mein tera Khoon pie jaongaa" or "I will drink your blood" -- and this is among vegetarians! To drink a persons blood means a serious threat of injury.

Note -- Jesus doesn't clear up the Metaphor, like he did in Matt. 16:5–12
5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread.
6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread?
9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
So, Jesus DOES indicate when it is a metaphor and when it isn't and John 6 is NOT a metaphor -- He solemnly repeats it TWICE and even when the disciples leave, does not call back "oh, it's just a metaphor for fellowship"
3,318 posted on 02/06/2011 3:46:56 AM PST by Cronos
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