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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50
If a man commits murder and never repents, he wasn't saved in the first place

This is what the OP beleives: that man can never lose his salvation, no matter what he does, so when they read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Galatians 5:19-21 the OPC believes that if anyone commits any such sin, there is no repentence for the followers of Calvin

Their idea of god will not take repentence, penance, so the followers of Calvin will say that the person never was Christian at all as shown in Dr. E's post above.

the OPC twists the words of scripture by saying that
First between true and false conversion. The Bible recognizes that not everyone who says he believes in Christ really does
Voilą! (by the way, that means "see there" in French) -- the followers of Calvin-Machen use their 14-page excerpted bible to say "Oh, they never were Christian in the first place!"

This so emphatically denies scripture which refutes this -- to give one example, Ezekiel 33
12 “Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’

13 If I tell a righteous person that they will surely live, but then they trust in their righteousness and do evil, none of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered; they will die for the evil they have done

14 And if I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ but they then turn away from their sin and do what is just and right— 15 if they give back what they took in pledge for a loan, return what they have stolen, follow the decrees that give life, and do no evil—that person will surely live; they will not die. 16 None of the sins that person has committed will be remembered against them. They have done what is just and right; they will surely live.
How clear does God have to get?
2,726 posted on 02/02/2011 12:48:00 AM PST by Cronos
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To: Cronos; kosta50

You continue to misstate what Christians, Protestants, Presbyterians and the OPC believe.

A true child of God whose name has been written in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world cannot lose his salvation, and will, at a time of God’s choosing, know he has been saved by Christ alone, and therefore he will be brought to repentance, obedience and faith.

And the test of that person’s salvation is in his perseverance. If he perseveres to the end, he was correct to believe he was saved. The fruit of the Holy Spirit bore witness to Christ within him, and Christ never left him alone to slip away. He made sure to bring him home.

If a person says he’s a Christian, but the Spirit is not in him, and he falters, never to return to faith, then that person was never saved in the first place.

Cronos, do you believe that He who has begun a good work in you will perform it to the end?


2,727 posted on 02/02/2011 12:55:41 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Cronos; Dr. Eckleburg
[Dr. E: If a man commits murder and never repents, he wasn't saved in the first place]

Cronos: This is what the OP beleives: that man can never lose his salvation...

The argument that unless a sinner repents he "wasn't saved in the first place" is sophism. Protestants believe that, even though not yet perfected in this life (i.e. continue to sin and fail to repent for it immediately) they are nevertheless assured of their salvation simply by virtue of their faith, not deeds.

Let's, then, take your average Joe Protestant, who in his heart believes in Jesus, but who in his lifetime committed numerous sins and repented of some, but not all because he is not yet perfected, who dies before he had a chance to be perfected, and therefore leaves this world without having repented of all his sins. Is he saved? According to Dr. E, he is not.

But every Protestant I ever met was absolutely sure he or she was "saved!" They can't both be right...

2,865 posted on 02/02/2011 9:15:30 AM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit....give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- pagan prayer)
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