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To: Cronos; Alamo-Girl; xzins; YHAOS; metmom; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; James C. Bennett; ...
I personally believe that it did influence the thought process — a return to nothingness.

Weird. For I didn't realize that "zero" — 0 — represented "nothingness."

Until you suggested it, that is. But I still don't have a clue what you mean!

To me, at the very least, zero stands not as representing "nothing," but as an indispensable place marker.... That is, it is a "something," not a "nothing."

I am quite sure that my dearest sister in Christ Alamo-Girl can explain this far better than I can. :^)

I only "dabble" in "the Maths"..... She has the genuine gift. :^)

2,710 posted on 02/02/2011 12:15:35 AM PST by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; xzins; caww; HarleyD
And yet, 0 does represent, basically, nothing! That's the Hindu concept of destruction of maya and a return to Ishwara.

Ok, let me try and explain what Hindu thought is -- badly, as I can't remember all the terminologies used.

Do note one thing -- Hinduism is not some primitive belief with no philosophy or just worshipping stones. They have a rich mythology and they have literally multiple philosophies -- some like the Tantrics believe in 'black magic', while some like the Arya Samaj reject all depictions of god and only worship "Ishwara" -- their temples are basically meeting halls. Some Hindus worship certain gods for their aspects, some hindus like Vaishnavites worship only Vishnu or his avatars, others, the Shaivites worship only Shiva, the god of destruction. Some Hindus believe there is only one god, Ishwara or Vishnu or Shiva etc., others believe in a pantheon, others are practically atheistic, others are animists. In short, this is a deep and varied META-religion or umbrella term for multiple religions and my explanation will NOT do justice to it.

In some Hindu thoughts -- especially the Brahminical Vaishnavite, the entire universe is believed to have been created by a High God, Ishwara, who created Brahma and Vishnu, while Shiva was an emanation of Ishwara.

Brahma woke up and created the universe (and then basically he leaves it -- so the idea of the impersonal creator deity).

The universe goes through 4 yugas (or ages). In the first yuga, Satya (or truth) all beings are good. in the second most are good. in the third, the bad predominate. in the fourth (Kali-yuga -- I don't know what Kali means) most are evil.

Each yuga lasts millions of years (the Hindu counting of ages is literally mind-boggling. Satya yuga is 1,728,000 years and the others I can't remember (1728 is close to the square of 42 which is interesting to a Douglas Adam's fan)

Now note this -- at the end of Kali yuga, the universe is completely destroyed and re-absorbed into Brahma. BUT THEN HE goes to sleep and when he wakes up the next Brahma-day, He RE-CREATES the universe and the cycle starts again.

Brahma lives for 100 of his years, re-creating and absorbing the universe over and over again and at the end of this time, he himself is absorbed into Ishwara and the multiverse comes to an end.

Now, I've never been able to understand one thing, why Hindus don't worship Brahma except to invoke him at the start of a yagna.

Vishnu gets more "respect", but then only as one of his 10 avatars -- Ram and Krishna being the most famous, but also others like Narasimha. This story (of Narasimha) is interesting. It seems there was once a rakshasa (Asura or demon or evil figure) who meditated for centuries to Brahma. And Brahma was pleased and came to meet the Rakshasa and said "what boon can I give you" (on an aside, Brahma always seems to be giving stupid boons like this, giving powers to demons!).

And the demon says "ok, make me immortal". Brahma may be stupid, but he ain't dumb, so he says "nope". But then the demon says "ok, then let me live forever and let no one be able to kill me neither man nor beast, no one can kill me at day or night or inside or outside and let no weapon be able to kill me." and Brahma being the idiot grants this and leaves the mess for others to clear up.

So, the rakshasa goes about doing his bad things, invades the world of the gods, terrorises them and so the gods pray to Vishnu who incarnates as Narasimha, half-man, half-lion. This Narasimha then takes the demon at twilight (not day nor night) and puts him across his knees over the threshold (neither inside nor outside) and then carves him open with his claws (no weapon)!

Anyway, I digress -- 0 does mean nothing. it is not a place marker. The place marker is the decimal point (another invention by Indians)
2,748 posted on 02/02/2011 2:01:50 AM PST by Cronos
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To: betty boop; Cronos
You do a lot more than "dabble" in math, dearest sister in Christ! And I thank you for bringing this sidebar to my attention.

Mathematically speaking, zero means that no objects are present – not that objects do not exist. If objects do not exist at all, the condition is null not zero.

Consider if you had a wallet with no money in it, it could be said you have zero currency. However if there were no such thing as currency, then it would not be currency=zero but currency=null.

The mathematical point underscores a theological insight concerning creation ex nihilo. A mathematical point has zero dimensions but it is not nothing (null) – it is a space of zero dimensions. In creation ex nihilo there are no dimensions at all. Or to put it another way, space/time does not apply to the Creator of it.

Also, zero is the only number which is neither positive nor negative. Any number multiplied by zero is zero and therefore division by zero is impossible.


2,898 posted on 02/02/2011 10:05:40 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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