Replies

You did make an error. Prove your statement " Mark is not alone and it's not the first I've encountered this"

I'm not going to pull other Catholics from this site into this conversation. However, I would point to Catholic Answers where in an unscientific poll 40% of the Catholics believe the Bible to contain errors.

Here's another article Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible. If you believe this to be a hit piece on the Catholic Church, I suggest you read through the Del Verbum. Please pay close attention to how the pattern shifts from the word of God to the Church in around chapter 8.

But in order to keep the Gospel forever whole and alive within the Church, the Apostles left bishops as their successors,

8. And so the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved by an unending succession of preachers until the end of time. Therefore the Apostles, handing on what they themselves had received, warn the faithful to hold fast to the traditions which they have learned either by word of mouth or by letter (see 2 Thess. 2:15), and to fight in defense of the faith handed on once and for all (see Jude 1:3) (4) Now what was handed on by the Apostles includes everything which contributes toward the holiness of life and increase in faith of the peoples of God; and so the Church, in her teaching, life and worship, perpetuates and hands on to all generations all that she herself is, all that she believes.

As confirmed in this article and the Del Verbum, the scriptures mean nothing. They were only meant to exist until the Church could be established and serves the Church. It is the "holding fast to traditions" that is important. Now where did I hear that one before?

thank you. None of what you excerpted from Dei Verbum in any way says that "the scriptures mean nothing." -- on the contrary it says that the Sacred scripture is "inspired books"

"They were only meant to exist until...." --> this is never said in the excerpts or the main Dei Verbum. The history AND belief is that the community of Christians existed before canon was closed, before many of the epistles were written.

It is the "holding ....is important. --> it is important, yet it does not supplant scripture.

In contrast, if you really looked at the Dei Verbum you would see:

For Sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit,

Those divinely revealed realities which are contained and presented in Sacred Scripture have been committed to writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings

God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, (6) the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words.....no less serious attention must be given to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture if the meaning of the sacred texts is to be correctly worked out...

The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures just as she venerates the body of the Lord, since, especially in the sacred liturgy, she unceasingly receives and offers to the faithful the bread of life from the table both of God's word and of Christ's body.

Therefore, like the Christian religion itself, all the preaching of the Church must be nourished and regulated by Sacred Scripture. For in the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven meets His children with great love and speaks with them;

For the Sacred Scriptures contain the word of God and since they are inspired really are the word of God; and so the study of the sacred page is, as it were, the soul of sacred theology.

Dei Verbum clearly says For the Sacred Scriptures contain the word of God and since they are inspired really are the word of God; and it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error

thank you.

You post an internet website poll which has just 41 participants as proof of what all Catholics think???

Wow, so if I put up a poll and get 40 Americans responding to it, do I state that that is the opinion of all Americans??? That's silly.

thank you.

You post a link to the Times of London as proof for what the Catholic Church teachs?? I gave you concrete statements of what the Church teaches from both Vatican I and II, I pointed out how Dei Verbum says that the Scriptures are inerrant and you then say you don't believe what the Catholic Church says in writing, but you believe what the Main-Stream-MEDIA says??

thank you.

You post a link to the Times of London as proof for what the Catholic Church teachs?? I gave you concrete statements of what the Church teaches from both Vatican I and II, I pointed out how Dei Verbum says that the Scriptures are inerrant and you then say you don't believe what the Catholic Church says in writing, but you believe what the Main-Stream-MEDIA says??

Firstly -- in typical MSM lies they distorted the headline -- and you and other non-Catholics AND Catholics fell for the MSM's tricks hook line and sinker

Secondly, the article barely quotes the article at all, only the journo giving his own free interpretation of what he wants to see in the original document posted by the bishops

Thirdly,The Church has consistently weighed in that the scriptures are INERRANT

The First Vatican Council taught:

These books [of the canon] the Church holds to be sacred and canonical, not because, having been composed by human industry, they were afterwards approved by her authority; nor only because they contain revelation without error; but because, having been written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they have God for their author (De Fide Catholica 2:7).

Pope Leo XIII stated that "it is absolutely wrong and forbidden either to narrow inspiration to certain parts only of Holy Scripture or to admit that the sacred writer has erred" and condemned "the system of those who, in order to rid themselves of these difficulties, do not hesitate to concede that divine inspiration regards the things of faith and morals, and nothing beyond" (Providentissimus Deus 20).

Pius XII stated that the Vatican I passage cited above was a "solemn definition of Catholic doctrine, by which such divine authority is claimed for the ‘entire books with all their parts’ as to secure freedom from any error whatsoever." He repudiated those who "ventured to restrict the truth of Sacred Scripture solely to matters of faith and morals" (Divino Afflante Spiritu 1).

Finally, the only truth in the article is at the end:

Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: “There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly. That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching."

Do stop repeating the basic anti-Catholic rot --> the main-stream-media publishes these distortions because the blogosphere anti-Catholics will pick up their distortions and say "see!!"

As confirmed in this article and the Del Verbum, the scriptures mean nothing. They were only meant to exist until the Church could be established and serves the Church. It is the "holding fast to traditions" that is important. Now where did I hear that one before?

One of the problems with this statement is that the Tradition existed long before the NT Scriptures were written and centuries before they were chosen. And that Tradition continues to this day. The Icons were created to remind the illiterate supermajority of the day of aspects of the Faith. They predated NT Scripture as well.