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To: MarkBsnr; HarleyD; Alamo-Girl; count-your-change
"Scriptures cannot be infallible. Their interpretation can be and is under the Church as Scripture itself illustrates.

For clarification, are you saying that the RCC does not hold Scripture to be infallible in its original mss (as do most evangelicals)?

Do you realize that every major heresy of the first millennium can be defended directly from Scripture - admittedly snippets, but so are many current beliefs."

So the abuse of something invalidates its authority, or those who effectively or formally presume a doctrinal authority superior to it, but it validates one who uses it in asserting that it is infallible whenever it speaks in accordance with its infallibly defined criteria? By what means are we to ascertain that Rome is the One True and infallible Church?

2,352 posted on 01/31/2011 6:54:55 PM PST by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: daniel1212
"Scriptures cannot be infallible. Their interpretation can be and is under the Church as Scripture itself illustrates.

For clarification, are you saying that the RCC does not hold Scripture to be infallible in its original mss (as do most evangelicals)?

For one thing, you do not have the original mss, so the question is really moot. For another thing, printed words cannot be infallible. They may be inerrant, but not infallible. A third point is that the interpretation of these words may be infallible. And they are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit leading the Magisterium of the Church, not Luther's every milkmaid.

So the abuse of something invalidates its authority, or those who effectively or formally presume a doctrinal authority superior to it, but it validates one who uses it in asserting that it is infallible whenever it speaks in accordance with its infallibly defined criteria? By what means are we to ascertain that Rome is the One True and infallible Church?

Why do you guys keep going on about Rome? What is your obsession? The Church was created by Jesus and commissioned by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. That is the authority - from Jesus, not from a self indulgent monk, and not from a power crazed monomaniacal lunatic. Or the absurd and most ridiculous Zwingli. The Church is the Church and it is not headquartered at Rome.

2,353 posted on 01/31/2011 7:08:46 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: daniel1212; HarleyD; Alamo-Girl; count-your-change
For clarification, are you saying that the RCC does not hold Scripture to be infallible in its original mss (as do most evangelicals)?

Please check out post 2425.

2,428 posted on 02/01/2011 1:34:00 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: daniel1212; HarleyD; Alamo-Girl; count-your-change
A person can be fallible/infallible.

A book can be errant/inerrant.

A person cannot be errant/inerrant and a book cannot be fallible/infallible.

The Bible is inerrant, without errors. That is Church belief and doctrine.

This was repeated in Vatican I
These books [of the canon] the Church holds to be sacred and canonical, not because, having been composed by human industry, they were afterwards approved by her authority; nor only because they contain revelation without error; but because, having been written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they have God for their author (De Fide Catholica 2:7).
and in VII
it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully, and without error that truth that God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation
This rejected any form of limited inerrancy
2,438 posted on 02/01/2011 2:11:40 AM PST by Cronos
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