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To: boatbums
Very good. But let us look at the Beatitudes first before we examine your verses in that light. Matthew 5:

8 8 Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

10 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, 9 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11

Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.

12 10 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

13 11 12 "You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden.

15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.

16 Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.

And so on. Notice the recurring theme here that Jesus includes in every line? Salvation is conditional. Verse 13 is very explicit. When the salt loses its flavour (or the conditions are no longer there), the salt is gotten rid of - or salvation is not given

John 1: the adopted people (ie all men, not just the Jews) were given the power, or the right to become children of God. Not that all of them are. Of course not.

Romans 8: Those who are led by the Spirit are the children of God. Yes. When we no longer are led by the Spirit, but by other fascinations, we are no longer children of God. A condition fully agreeing with the Beatitudes.

Galatians 3: Children of God through faith, clothing yourself in Christ. If you cast off the clothing of Christ, you are no longer a child of God. The last line says that they are heirs to the promise (of God). Heirs don't always collect.

1 John 3: You omitted the first line which says that the Father bestowed love upon us so that we may be called the children of God. Further in the chapter, John also runs through some conditions.

My point? People may refer to themselves as children of God, yet not meet these and other conditions laid upon us by Christ. I cannot say, nor can any man, who is saved and who is not saved, but we have the instructions laid upon us by Christ and those who repudiate them certainly incrase their odds of being repudiated by Christ (Matthew 25). When people say that they "know" that they are saved, this goes against almost continuous message of Christ that God is love, yet salvation is conditional. We must run the race until the very end. Just like the pickers in the vineyard, even those who come late but are accepted by the master will get a full day's wage ie salvation. But if you are not in the vineyard at the end of your day, you will not.

1,079 posted on 01/19/2011 10:38:20 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr; boatbums

How did God judge Lot?


1,088 posted on 01/19/2011 11:21:41 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: MarkBsnr; boatbums

Or David?


1,089 posted on 01/19/2011 11:22:02 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: MarkBsnr
8 8 Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.

Our hearts are clean before God because we have been made holy and pure through faith in Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

All who share the gospel with others bring the true peace that passes all understanding - it is a peace with God through faith in Christ.

Acts 10:36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

10 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, 9 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 10 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you. 11 Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.

When we suffer persecution for the cause of Christ we are truly happy and blessed and count it all joy because we are partakers of his suffering for us. But suffering is not a work we must do in order to be saved.

I Cor. 1:5-7 For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.

13 11 12 "You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

A neat thing about salt, it never loses its saltiness. Neither will we ever lose our position in Christ which is through faith in Him.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

14 You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. 16 Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.

All who put their trust in Christ should also live lives that glorify God and so their light shines on the Gospel of Christ who gave his life for us that we shall be made alive in him.

John 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

And so on. Notice the recurring theme here that Jesus includes in every line? Salvation is conditional. Verse 13 is very explicit. When the salt loses its flavour (or the conditions are no longer there), the salt is gotten rid of - or salvation is not given

Rather I notice the recurring misunderstanding that comes from first thinking salvation is conditional upon the works and merits of man rather than by grace through faith. When we are in Christ by faith we are never lost, cast out or plucked out of his hands. We HAVE everlasting life because he has given it to us who place our trust in him. The fundamental difference we have is in "What must a man do to be saved?" Our answer is, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” (Acts 16:31)

John 1: the adopted people (ie all men, not just the Jews) were given the power, or the right to become children of God. Not that all of them are. Of course not.

Of course. Only those who by faith receive Christ are born again into the family of God. We are his children by faith.

Rom. 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 8: Those who are led by the Spirit are the children of God. Yes. When we no longer are led by the Spirit, but by other fascinations, we are no longer children of God. A condition fully agreeing with the Beatitudes.

Those who are led by the Spirit and accept Christ are then indwelt by that Spirit and he is "who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." Eph. 1:4

Galatians 3: Children of God through faith, clothing yourself in Christ. If you cast off the clothing of Christ, you are no longer a child of God. The last line says that they are heirs to the promise (of God). Heirs don't always collect.

What are you implying that God will not deliver on his promises? The beauty of the promises of God is that he will ever remain faithful, we cannot cast off what is within us.

I Pet. 1:3-5 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 John 3: You omitted the first line which says that the Father bestowed love upon us so that we may be called the children of God. Further in the chapter, John also runs through some conditions.

Salvation is conditioned upon our faith, our trusting in him, our resting in his precious promises, not on our goodness or merit. That is pure grace, unadulterated.

I John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

My point? People may refer to themselves as children of God, yet not meet these and other conditions laid upon us by Christ. I cannot say, nor can any man, who is saved and who is not saved, but we have the instructions laid upon us by Christ and those who repudiate them certainly incrase their odds of being repudiated by Christ (Matthew 25). When people say that they "know" that they are saved, this goes against almost continuous message of Christ that God is love, yet salvation is conditional. We must run the race until the very end. Just like the pickers in the vineyard, even those who come late but are accepted by the master will get a full day's wage ie salvation. But if you are not in the vineyard at the end of your day, you will not.

As long as you rest upon your own merit and good works to save you or keep you saved you are NOT really trusting in Jesus Christ as Savior. Salvation is not earned or deserved, it is GRACE. Until a person really gets that through their head and heart, they will never know the joy of God's salvation and they will never have eternal life no matter how good they think they are.

1,164 posted on 01/19/2011 5:51:55 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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