Gleanings FM the Shorter Biblical Prophets vs Replacementarians et al Hostile To Israel [Quixicated]

The curious mystical space between Quix's ears | 10 Jan 2011 | Bible; Quix Commentary

[Quix]

GLEANINGS FM THE SHORTER BIBLICAL PROPHETS
VS
REPLACEMENTARIANS ET AL HOSTILE TO ISRAEL

Replacementarianism Meets God's Shredder

JOEL The Message Version
Get In Touch With Reality--And Weep!
Attention, elder statesmen! Listen closely,    everyone, whoever and wherever you are! Have you ever heard of anything like this?    Has anything like this ever happened before—ever? Make sure you tell your children,    and your children tell their children, And their children their children.    Don't let this message die out.	Quix Commentary: Clearly God is asserting that this message is to have a very long 'history future' reach. DON'T LET THE MESSAGE DIE OUT! Coupled with the Scripture about the END TIMES being worse than the world HAS EVER known or WILL EVER know--it is plausible to construe this verse and the one below as having the END TIMES era as the target era.
4What the chewing locust left,    the gobbling locust ate; What the gobbling locust left,    the munching locust ate; What the munching locust left,    the chomping locust ate.	This clearly speaks of utter devastation of at least crops--particularly food crops, most logically. What other time would most likely fit than the time the Bible speaks of as being the worst era ever? Matthew 24:22 (The Message) 21-22"This is going to be trouble on a scale beyond what the world has ever seen, or will see again. If these days of trouble were left to run their course, nobody would make it. But on account of God's chosen people, the trouble will be cut short.
5-7Sober up, you drunks!    Get in touch with reality—and weep! Your supply of booze is cut off.    You're on the wagon, like it or not. My country's being invaded    by an army invincible, past numbering, Teeth like those of a lion,    fangs like those of a tiger. It has ruined my vineyards,    stripped my orchards, And clear-cut the country.    The landscape's a moonscape.	When has an "invincible army, past numbering . . . clear-cut the country? When Rome salted the land? Conceivably. Yet, I'm not convinced that "invincible, past numbering" quite describes the Roman army BETTER than it describes the army yet to assault Israel from the END TIMES configurarion of nations e.g. is depicted in Ezekiel. The landscape a moonscape is pretty severe. Sounds more severe than Rome's salting efforts, to me.
8-10Weep like a young virgin dressed in black,    mourning the loss of her fiancé. Without grain and grapes,    worship has been brought to a standstill    in the Sanctuary of God. The priests are at a loss.    God's ministers don't know what to do. The fields are sterile.    The very ground grieves. The wheat fields are lifeless,    vineyards dried up, olive oil gone.	Famine again is a theme. However, we may have a clue as to the era here. Worship has been brought to a standstill IN THE SANCTUARY OF GOD. Sounds like a Jewish Temple Sanctuary, to me. When the Romans salted Israel . . . they destroyed the Temple. This passage seems to be referring to a time when there is a Jewish Temple. Yet the fields are sterile, lifeless, DRIED UP. Sterile could have to do with being salted. It could also have to do with extreme drought because Israel sought security in her own arms and diplomacy vs in God Almighty--as will be the case for evidently a majority percentage of the END TIMES era.
11-12Dirt farmers, despair!    Grape growers, wring your hands! Lament the loss of wheat and barley.    All crops have failed. Vineyards dried up,    fig trees withered, Pomegranates, date palms, and apple trees—    deadwood everywhere! And joy is dried up and withered    in the hearts of the people.	More of the same. . . . Utter crop failures far and wide. Interestingly, joy is dried up . . . in the hearts of the people. YET THE PEOPLE ARE STILL THERE. When Rome salted Israel, the people were scattered over the globe.
Nothing's Going On in the Place of Worship  13-14 And also you priests,    put on your robes and join the outcry. You who lead people in worship,    lead them in lament. Spend the night dressed in gunnysacks,    you servants of my God. Nothing's going on in the place of worship,    no offerings, no prayers—nothing. Declare a holy fast, call a special meeting,    get the leaders together, Round up everyone in the country.    Get them into God's Sanctuary for serious prayer to God.	Ahhhh . . . Priests are again officiating in the era concerned. Yet, now, there's nothing going on in the place of worship. However, the priests are exhorted to round the Israelites up and get them into God's Sanctuary for SERIOUS prayer. I don't think that fits without a new 3rd Temple.
15-18What a day! Doomsday!    God's Judgment Day has come. The Strong God has arrived.    This is serious business! Food is just a memory at our tables,    as are joy and singing from God's Sanctuary. The seeds in the field are dead,    barns deserted, Grain silos abandoned.    Who needs them? The crops have failed! The farm animals groan—oh, how they groan!    The cattle mill around. There's nothing for them to eat.    Not even the sheep find anything.	Was the Roman thrashing and dispersion Biblically called a DOOMSDAY? I don't recall it in those terms in any translation. GOD'S JUDGMENT DAY HAS ARRIVED! That's not a glibly applied generic label in Scripture! I don't think 70AD qualifies as a SUFFICIENTLY decisive time of judgment on this order. There were many similar judgments in Israel's history to Rome's thrashing. Joel is describing something much more serious and dramatic.
19-20God! I pray, I cry out to you!    The fields are burning up, The country is a dust bowl,    forest and prairie fires rage unchecked. Wild animals, dying of thirst,    look to you for a drink. Springs and streams are dried up.    The whole country is burning up.	This is more than warfare. This is drought from God Almighty. Which is also consistent with other Scriptures about END TIMES drought--whether at the hands of the TWO WITNESSES or otherwise.
Joseph F Walvoord [Hereafter: JFW--Dean of Biblical Prophecy scholars--asserts in his EVERY PROPHECY OF THE BIBLE (Cook Communications (c) 1990 & 1999) that some of the above verses were fufilled in the Assyrian captivity or after the Babylonian Captivity. Plausible. My own bias is that the whole of Joel refers to the END TIMES ERA. It may ALSO refer to other partial fulfillments of such verses, though I believe the targeted era is our own END TIMES ERA. I believe that Peter signaled this when he referred to Joel at Pentecost at the beginning of the Church Age/ Era/ Dispensation. I find several signalling markers in Joel that ONLY MATCH the END TIMES ERA and related prophecies in other Biblical passages. I believe that even the partial fulfillment of a verse of Joel at Pentecost will turn out to have been relatively anemic compared to what God is going to yet do in this END TIMES era, on such scores and in such ways.
JOEL 2

Joel 2 (The Message) The Locust Army  1-3 Blow the ram's horn trumpet in Zion! Trumpet the alarm on my holy mountain! Shake the country up!    God's Judgment's on its way—the Day's almost here! A black day! A Doomsday!    Clouds with no silver lining! Like dawn light moving over the mountains,    a huge army is coming. There's never been anything like it    and never will be again. Wildfire burns everything before this army    and fire licks up everything in its wake. Before it arrives, the country is like the Garden of Eden.    When it leaves, it is Death Valley.    Nothing escapes unscathed.	BLOW THE TRUMPET IN ZION! THE DAY's almost here! Doomsday! This is no ordinary thrashing at the hands of a local enemy. This is a major event. A HUGE army is coming. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT AND NEVER WILL BE AGAIN. THAT does NOT sound like ANY other time but the END TIMES as Christ echoed in Mat 24:22 above. CERTAINLY 70AD and Rome's thrashing is simply wholesale inadequate to qualify. BEFORE IT ARRIVES--like the Garden of Eden--then Death Valley. Another prophecy predicts that the desert will bloom again after the desolation of the dispersion. And Israel is certainly blooming again--currently. Wildfire burns everything before this army. Hmmmmmm. Was the recent fire a precursor?
4-6The locust army seems all horses—    galloping horses, an army of horses. It sounds like thunder    leaping on mountain ridges, Or like the roar of wildfire    through grass and brush, Or like an invincible army shouting for blood,    ready to fight, straining at the bit. At the sight of this army,    the people panic, faces white with terror.	Some folks believe this is symbolic and others literal. "sounds like thunder" "leaping on mountain ridges," "like the roar of wildfire" "At the sight of this army" all bespeak, to me, an army MORE awesome and terrifying than a locust army. Some have suggested that some Biblical prophecies about some Tribulation forces describe helicopters with stinger missiles. Plausible. I just think that the army described above makes MORE LOUD NOISE than a locust army at its worst is capable of making. And, I think that people would be gaspingly horrified and grieved at a massive locust army. I think a demonized mechanized and/or fallen angel army would trigger much greater, more intense TERROR--which seems to be described in this passage.
7-11The invaders charge.    They climb barricades. Nothing stops them. Each soldier does what he's told,    so disciplined, so determined. They don't get in each other's way.    Each one knows his job and does it.	This language speaks of a dramatic human (mechanized?) and/or demonic/fallen angel forces army. "invaders charge." Odd language for mere locusts. "climb barracades" Locusts just fly over barricades. Seems like unfitting language for mere locusts. "Each soldier" Each locust? I dont' think that fits so well. Each individual human/fallen angel soldier fits better. "so disciplined" Certainly locusts under God's control would be disciplined. However, I don't think we normally think of bugs as disciplined. Bugs operate by instinct, inborn compulsion. Human and/or fallen angel forces with some degree of individual choice are "DISCIPLINED" AS SOLDIERS. "They don't get in each other's way" I've seen swarms of bugs. They get in each other's way a lot. Of course a God-ordered swarm COULD be different. It just seems to me that this is more descriptive of individual mortals and/or fallen angels in an army being exceedingly disciplined. "Each one knows his job and does it." This sounds more like mortals and/or fallen angel individuals than compulsively instinct driven bugs. "Undaunted and fearless," Certainly God sent bugs could be undaunted and fearless. However, bugs are more or less automatically undaunted and fearless at their task of devouring plant life. Fear does not seem to be a significant part of their nervous system or cognitions. They may move out of their way when about to be squashed. Yet we don't observe them cowering or pleadingly suplicating in the process. Undaunted much more fits a fierce human and/or fallen angel disciplined army of individuals than of bugs, imho.
Undaunted and fearless,    unswerving, unstoppable. They storm the city,    swarm its defenses, Loot the houses,    breaking down doors, smashing windows.	This section sounds like mortal and/or fallen angel individuals in an army, as well. "swarm its defenses," bugs can swarm most anything. However, locusts swarming a rock wall or a set of rocket launchers or tanks would not likely cause a great deal of damage. "Loot the houses," "breaking down doors, smashing windows." Locusts could eat organic things in a house. However, I have a hard time picturing normal locusts--regardless of how many--breaking down doors--or even normally strong windows. This sounds like mortal and/or fallen angel forces doing the normal looting and destruction warriors have been known for through the centuries.
They arrive like an earthquake,    sweep through like a tornado. Sun and moon turn out their lights,    stars black out. God himself bellows in thunder    as he commands his forces. Look at the size of that army!    And the strength of those who obey him! God's Judgment Day—great and terrible.    Who can possibly survive this?	Arriving like an earthquake sounds much more like modern bombs and/or exotic weapons systems (including sound), being used instead of the wings of even billions of normal bugs. A massive bug swarm could certainly block out the sun, moon and stars. Some sources have also seen prophetically, masses of exotic craft blocking out the sun etc. Ahhhhh GOD HIMSELF COMMANDS HIS FORCES. Regardless of what sort of forces and whether fallen angels or God loving angels are used--God is clearly in control of this assault. ". . . the strength of those who obey him . . . " speaks to me of individual members, components, individuals much stronger than individual bugs.
Change Your Life  12 But there's also this, it's not too late—    God's personal Message!— "Come back to me and really mean it!    Come fasting and weeping, sorry for your sins!"	This was certainly a plea of God to Israel in many situations of history. It is His plea to Israel and all the earth, NOW.
13-14Change your life, not just your clothes.    Come back to God, your God. And here's why: God is kind and merciful.    He takes a deep breath, puts up with a lot, This most patient God, extravagant in love,    always ready to cancel catastrophe. Who knows? Maybe he'll do it now,    maybe he'll turn around and show pity. Maybe, when all's said and done,    there'll be blessings full and robust for your God!	"Come back to God, YOUR God." Yet again Almighty Jehovah exhorts Israel to return to THE ONE "IAM THAT I AM" who chose THEM as HIS OWN, for HIS OWN GLORY.
15-17 Blow the ram's horn trumpet in Zion!    Declare a day of repentance, a holy fast day. Call a public meeting.    Get everyone there. Consecrate the congregation. Make sure the elders come,    but bring in the children, too, even the nursing babies, Even men and women on their honeymoon—    interrupt them and get them there. Between Sanctuary entrance and altar,    let the priests, God's servants, weep tears of repentance. Let them intercede: "Have mercy, God, on your people!    Don't abandon your heritage to contempt. Don't let the pagans take over and rule them    and sneer, 'And so where is this God of theirs?'"	"Between Sanctuary entrance and altar," "Have mercy, God on YOUR PEOPLE!" "Don't abandon YOUR HERITAGE to contempt. "Don't let the pagans take over and rule them and sneer 'And so where is this God of theirs?'" Does THAT sound like God is abandoning the blood children of Jacob in favor of grafted-in Christian Johnny come lately's? One last time in the era of history & reality as we have known it, God summons ALL ISRAEL to HIMSELF--to--essentially--the successor place to the tent of meeting.
18-20 At that, God went into action to get his land back.    He took pity on his people. God answered and spoke to his people,    "Look, listen—I'm sending a gift: Grain and wine and olive oil.    The fast is over—eat your fill! I won't expose you any longer    to contempt among the pagans. I'll head off the final enemy coming out of the north    and dump them in a wasteland. Half of them will end up in the Dead Sea,    the other half in the Mediterranean. There they'll rot, a stench to high heaven.    The bigger the enemy, the stronger the stench!"	"God went into action to get HIS LAND back Sounds like the same 'Jealous God' with the same goals and priorities regarding HIS CHOSEN ONES, who has fiercely watched over HIS PEOPLE and HIS LAND from the time of HIS CHOOSING THEM--through all their rebellions and wanderings in exile punishment. "God answered and spoke to HIS PEOPLE" "Look, listen--I'm sending a gift:" Who's ALMIGHT GOD SPEAKING TO? It's clearly NOT Johnny-come-lately--grafted-in Christians! He's OBVIOUSLY speaking to the Children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! "I (ALMIGHTY JEHOVAH) won't expose you any longer to contempt among the pagans." WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN UNTIL THE STAGES OF IT CEASING began to be manifested in 1948? "I'll head off the final enemy coming out of the north and dump them in a wasteland. That's OBVIOUSLY referring to other Biblical prophecies about Israel being attacked by an enemy to the furthermost North of Israel. There's only ONE CAPITAL in the furthermost North of Israel--Moscow and Russia. [SEE Jer 5:15 & 6:22; Ezek 38-39; Zech 12-14; Rev 16:14; Joel 3:1 Ahhhh, Joya has found it: It is in the ASV Ezek 39:2: And I will turn thee about, and will lead thee on, and will cause thee to come up from the uttermost parts of the North; and I will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel; Commentary left on Don Koenig's blog: Eduardo's comment: (ASV) and I will turn thee about, and will lead thee on, and will cause thee to come up from the uttermost parts of the north; and I will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel; (GNB) I will turn him in a new direction and lead him out of the far north until he comes to the mountains of Israel. (Good News Bible) (GW) I will turn you around and lead you. I will bring you from the far north and have you attack the mountains of Israel. (God's Word (C) 1995) (JPS) and I will turn thee about and lead thee on, and will cause thee to come up from the uttermost parts of the north; and I will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel; (Jewish Publication Society (C) 1917) (LBLA) ‘Te haré dar vuelta y te empujaré, te recogeré de las partes remotas del norte y te traeré contra los montes de Israel. from: http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/the-gogmagog-war-of-ezekiel-and-armageddon-are-different-wars.html See also: http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/the-gogmagog-war-of-ezekiel-and-armageddon-are-different-wars.html "Half of them will end up in the Dead Sea,. . ." "There they'll rot, a stench to high heaven. This again OBVIOUSLY refers to other Biblical prophecies about the enemy lying about the land with hired teams locating the marked (evidently nuked) bodies and burying them . . . and Israel living off the spoils from the conquered invading forces for 7 years.
The Trees Are Bearing Fruit Again  21-24 Fear not, Earth! Be glad and celebrate!    God has done great things. Fear not, wild animals!    The fields and meadows are greening up. The trees are bearing fruit again:    a bumper crop of fig trees and vines! Children of Zion, celebrate!    Be glad in your God. He's giving you a teacher    to train you how to live right— Teaching, like rain out of heaven, showers of words    to refresh and nourish your soul, just as he used to do. And plenty of food for your body—silos full of grain,    casks of wine and barrels of olive oil.	"Fear not, Earth!" When and why did the Earth fear in AD70? It did not. It was merely business as usual for the conquering forces and the conquered lands. One advanced and the other suffered at God's direction . . . punishment for rejection of Israel's Messiah--all as prophesied. "God has done great things." When, where and how did God do Great Things for Israel in AD 70? What irrational Preterist, A-mil, Post-mil, REPLACEMENTARIAN nonsense! The Prophet Joel is obviously speaking of the END TIMES era when Israel HAS RETURNED IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH TO HER ONLY TRUE GOD AND TRUE MESSIAH. "He is giving you a teacher to train you how to live right . . ." Sounds like the time when He will write his law on the hearts of all who fear and seek Him--INCLUDING grafted-in, Johnny-come-lately Christians--but MOST CERTAINLY on the hearts of blood descendants of Jacob--literal Israel. CERTAINLY such did NOT happen in 70AD! LOL.
25-27 "I'll make up for the years of the locust,    the great locust devastation— Locusts savage, locusts deadly,    fierce locusts, locusts of doom, That great locust invasion    I sent your way. You'll eat your fill of good food.    You'll be full of praises to your God, The God who has set you back on your heels in wonder.    Never again will my people be despised. You'll know without question    that I'm in the thick of life with Israel, That I'm your God, yes, your God,    the one and only real God. Never again will my people be despised.	Perhaps the locust devastation is both bugs and armed mortals and fallen angels. "NEVER AGAIN will my people be despised. That certainly did NOT happen in AD70! What idiocy to even PRETEND it did! It has NOT YET happened for the last 2000 years! YOU'LL KNOW WITHOUT QUESTION THAT I'M IN THE THICK OF LIFE WITH ISRAEL (the children of Jacob). There is NO rational QUESTION that ALMIGHTY GOD is talking about the blood children of Jacob in this passage and the whole book of Joel. "You'll KNOW WITHOUT QUESTION that I'M YOUR GOD, YES, YOUR GOD, THE ONE AND ONLY REAL GOD. NEVER AGAIN WILL MY PEOPLE BE DESPISED." CLEARLY this was not the case in 70AD and HAS NOT BEEN the case the last 2000 years to this moment. YET IT WILL BE the case in the END TIMES as the END TIMES Bible prophecies make abundantly clear in dozens of verses.
The Sun Turning Black and the Moon Blood-Red  28-32 "And that's just the beginning: After that—    "I will pour out my Spirit    on every kind of people: Your sons will prophesy,    also your daughters. Your old men will dream,    your young men will see visions. I'll even pour out my Spirit on the servants,    men and women both. I'll set wonders in the sky above    and signs on the earth below: Blood and fire and billowing smoke,    the sun turning black and the moon blood-red, Before the Judgment Day of God,    the Day tremendous and awesome. Whoever calls, 'Help, God!'    gets help. On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem    there will be a great rescue—just as God said. Included in the survivors    are those that God calls."	Certainly Peter indicated the dawn of the Church era with the END TIMES at the close of the Church era in his Pentecost Acts/2 sermon mentioning this passage in Joel. Pretending that THEN and only then was what Peter was referring to is irrational, UNBiblical nonsense, folly. The rest of the critical aspects of such prophecies CLEARLY HAVE NOT occurred in the last 2,000 years, MUCH LESS in 70AD. Such fantasies are UTTER TERMINAL FAILS in eschatological pontifications. The only logical interpretation that makes the least bit of rational AND BIBLICAL sense is that the CHURCH AGE Peter was introducing, wherein Holy Spirit inhabited and led BELIEVERS in the JEWISH MESSIAH as Creator God . . . would result in, END IN, the END TIMES ushering in JESUS THE CHRIST, THE MESSIAH AS CONQUERING KING. YES, Holy Spirit fell on every kind of people THEN. And anew beginning in the 1970's. And, many of us believe He will yet again in a final more dramatic way in these END TIMES. YES sons and daughters prophesied then AND ARE NOW, in increased numbers, increasing accuracy and increasing import on the world stage. YES old men dreamed and young men saw visions then AND ARE NOW in increasing numbers, increasing accuracy and increasing import on the world stage. This is true even amongst Muslims who are, in the 100's, seeing dreams and visions of Jesus as THE RISEN LORD, CREATOR GOD. Many don't even know who Jesus is and have to search out and then cautiously, secretly secure Bibles to obey the Heavenly vision and learn more in detail who this CREATOR GOD IS who has MADE HIMSELF so real to them. YES men and women both around the world are being filled, commmissioned, taught, led into all Truth by HOLY SPIRIT DIRECTLY--no church hierarchy--no church structure--STRICTLY A GOD THING directly with the individuals involved. See also http://www.faithcomesbyhearing.com for many examples of churches of an often Pentecostal/Charismatic character springing up in tribal groups just from faithful listening to and discussing the oral Scriptures in their language from hand crank mp3 players. WONDERS IN THE SKY have become unprecedented in the last 50 years. They have increased in drama astronomically as well as technologically. They have increased in frequency. Such was NOT the case in 70AD. Such was not even the case in 1870AD. The signs on the earth below have also been increasing dramatically in the last several decades and more dramatically in the last 3 years. The curve of increase in frequency and drama has become steeper even in the last year. Certainly the atomic bomb age has seen an increase in: "BLOOD AND FIRE AND BILLOWING SMOKE, "The sun turning black and the moon blood-red, has not yet happened. Certainly it did NOT happen in 70AD! It's sheer clueless irrational, UNBiblical idiocy to pretend that it did. "BEFORE the JUDGMENT DAY OF GOD," This is a particularly awesome JUDGMENT DAY OF GOD. This is no average or even earlier historical judgment day. THE DAY TREMENDOUS AND AWESOME. makes THAT abundantly clear for all with eyes to see and ears to hear and brains to truly fair-mindedly think. ON MOUNT ZION AND IN JERUSALEM THERE WILL BE A GREAT RESCUE . . . That did NOT happen in 70AD. It has not happened Yet. it WILL happen. GOD IS FAITHFUL AND TRUE! GOD'S WORD IS FAITHFUL AND TRUE! Heaven and earth will pass away before the tiniest part of His word will fail to the least degree. BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD--AND ALL WHO RECEIVE IT IN FAITH.

[Joya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSKyHmjyrkA

Building with PVC, know anyone that does that?

[geologist]

This works best for me in small bites. Then some assimilation and then another few bites.

Looks like an excellent work.

The Message is not a good translation to my mind. Quite a bit is lost or mellowed or changed. Still I will study this.

Thanks for the hard work.