Posted on 01/07/2011 2:21:27 PM PST by Paragon Defender
Critics claim that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not "Christian."
A related claim is that the Church has only recently begun to portray itself as "Christian" in order to gain adherents.
See also: Source(s) of the criticism
It is evident from what has been said, that the Mormons, as such, can have no part or lot in the religion of Jesus Christand we do not see how any one can be their friend, (as Mormons,) without being an enemy to God.
James MChesney, An Antidote To Mormonism, revised by G. J. Bennet (New York, NY: Burnett & Pollard, 1838), 49. off-site Full title
When critics make the claim that LDS are not Christian, they typically will present a laundry list of doctrines and practices that they believe put LDS outside the category of "Christian." At its base, this claim is an excellent example of the No true Scotsman fallacy.
There are two problems with such lists. The first, and most important, is that the original and enduring meaning of "Christian" has been a person or group whose beliefs or practices are founded on the life and/or teachings of Christ. That is, all groups whose religion is founded on Jesus of Nazareth have been classified as Christian since the term was first coined in the first century, regardless of specific beliefs and practices. "Christian" has always included such wildly diverse groups as the Ebionites, the Marcionites, and the Christian Gnostics of ancient times, along with Unitarians and Coptic Christians in modern times. Critics may believe that LDS are "false Christians" or "heretical Christians" or "hell-bound Christians," seeing that such terms are subjective and without standard definitions, but neither belief nor practice can exclude any group from the family of Christian religions and denominations if that group claims to be founded on the life or teachings of the first-century Jesus of Nazareth.
The second problem with the critics' list is that their list of objectionable beliefs and practices used to exclude LDS from the Christian family are lists of beliefs and practices that are found in other groups that are clearly classified as Christian. The claimed bases for the charge that the LDS are not Christians include:
Unfortunately for the critic, all of these doctrinal differences have been held not just by the LDS, but by other Christians as well, including the early Christians of the first and second centuries.[1] These Christians:
One might debate whether these Christians were correct or complete in their beliefs, but can the critics seriously exclude them from the family of Christians?[2]
The critics essentially create a definition of "Christian" that includes their brand of Christianity, and excludes others with whom they disagree.
The assertion that Latter-day Saints are not Christian has at its base the idea that the Latter-day Saints don't meet the definition of the word "Christian." But the meanings of words are determined by usage and acceptance. If a definition is widespread (used by many people), persistent (used over a long period of time), and established (accepted by individuals and organizations that are respected and assumed to be knowledgeable) then we can confidently state that the definition is correct and accurate.
The attempt to define "Christian" in such a way as to exclude Latter-day Saints (and many other groups that are generally considered to be some kind of Christian denomination or religion) is really the recent work of a minority group within Protestantism. The nearly-universal and nearly-2000-year-old usage of the word "Christian" has clearly included unorthodox groups that disagree, sometimes sharply, with the teachings and practices of those who claim to be able to define Latter-day Saints out of the Christian fold.
The following are some organizations and resources that classify The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as Christian. The range of sources from encyclopedias to media outlets to government organizations supports the fact that the definition of "Christian" includes Latter-day Saints.
This claim is absurd. The critics depend on their audience not knowing much about LDS history for this claim. Enemies and members of the Church have long known that Church members consider themselves "Christian" (italics added in all cases):
Clearly, the Church has "claimed" to be Christian for a long time, and even hostile critics realized it. To insist that this is a new, public relations move is false. Neutral observers have also seen the Church as Christian. Only a recent, intolerant fringe of fundamentalist Christianity has tried to exclude the Church from Christianity by self-serving definitions.
Critics use a self-serving and self-referential definition of "Christian" to exclude the LDS. They ignore the fact that many other Christians over the millennia would have disagreed with them on the same points, yet this does not disqualify these other believers from the family of "Christians."
Claims that the Church has only recently been asserting its Christian status are false, as attested by LDS scripture, practice, doctrine, and public statements of its leadership and its early critics.
Ironically, many of those who attack the Church and its members for not being Christians show a distinct lack of the Christian virtues themselves:
Great point. I’m actually going to say that to some friends and see what happens. LOL
I’m going to have to construct the arguments though but, it will be fun.
WHY MORMONS AND JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES ARE NOT CHRISTIANS - Answering the Question: “Why do you say that Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are not Christians. Don’t they believe in Jesus?”
The Mormon religion (officially known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or LDS) and the Jehovahs Witness organization (also known as the Watchtower) both share a common foundational doctrine: They claim that Christianity became corrupt at the death of the New Testament apostles. They assert that through their religion alone, God has restored the lost and corrupted elements of the Christian faith so that only those who practice their religion possess the purest form of Christianity.
When challenged by non-members that they are not Christians because they deny many of the doctrinal tenets of the original Christian faith, often Jehovahs Witness and Mormon adherents take offense. Reasoning that they believe in Jesus Christ, they question why anyone would consider them unchristian. In response to these assertions we ask:
1. If the confession that one “believes in Jesus Christ” is sufficient to qualify one as a “Christian”, how do we reconcile this with Jesus’ statement in Matthew chapter seven?
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.” Matthew 7:21-23 *
It is apparent that the people in Jesus example thought they were Christians. Even though they may have performed many works in Jesus name as proof of their religious devotion, Jesus rejected them with the statement, I never knew you. Given Jesus preceding warnings about false prophets who would masquerade as followers of Jesus Christ (verse 15), is it any wonder Jesus commanded us to test the fruit of religious teachers before embracing them into the fold (verse 20)? This brings us to our second question:
2. Suppose we evangelical Christians were to claim that we are Mormons because we believe in Jesus Christ, but we deny the Book of Mormon and teach that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. How would a LDS person feel about us claiming to be Mormon when we reject the basic tenets that underlie the LDS religion?
In the same way that a Mormon or a Jehovahs Witness would not be pleased with someone who claims to follow their religion but who rejects the fundamental tenets of their faith, so it is with true Christians.
Mormon Doctrine Exposed
Many of the people involved in these groups are sincere and are often the nicest, moral people one will ever meet. However, they have been deceived by a counterfeit religion that on the surface looks good, but is leading many into spiritual darkness. It doesn’t matter how many articles of “sheep’s clothing” they put on as they perform good “works” in the “name of Jesus Christ;” if their doctrinal “fruit” fails the test, they will experience the spiritual destruction accorded to those who follow “false prophets.”
“If a prophet...gives you as sign...and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet....”Deuteronomy 13:1-3
“to the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”Isaiah 8:20, KJV
“
the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
and they that are led of them are destroyed.”Isaiah 9:15-16, KJV
3. If Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are “Christians” just like we are, why do they send Missionaries to our doors to convert us to their beliefs?
Joseph Smith, Jr (founder of the Mormon religion) claimed that in 1820, Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him in a vision proclaiming that “all” the churches of Christianity were “wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination...that those professors were all corrupt....” (Joseph SmithHistory 1:19). Likewise, Jehovah’s Witnesses have claimed that all of the churches of Christendom are part of false religious Babylon and that one must “come to Jehovahs organization [i.e., the Watchtower] for salvation.”The Watchtower, November 15, 1981, p. 21
Is it any wonder Christians reject Jehovah’s Witness and Mormon religions as being unchristian? If they were truly just other sects or denominations of Christianity, why would they send missionaries to the doors of Christians to proselytize them into their religious groups? Why would they be concerned about gaining converts out of Christianity, if they were honestly part of Christianity? To add emphasis to the Mormon claims concerning Christianity, 1 Nephi 14:10 in the Book of Mormon states:
And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil. 1 Nephi 14:10
To the Mormons who proclaim that they are Christians just like we are, we ask the following questions:
According to the Book of Mormon which church is your church? If your church is the “church of the Lamb of God,” doesn’t this verse make our church the “church of the devil”? If then, according to Mormonism, our church is the “church of the devil,” how can you honestly claim to be Christians like we are?
In context, there is no question that the Book of Mormon is proclaiming that the churches of Christianity collectively comprise the “church of the devil.” The preceding verse (1 Nephi 14:9) speaks of a “great and abominable church...whose founder is the devil,” and 1 Nephi 13:26 identifies this “abominable church” as none other than the church that had possession of the Bible after it was delivered from the hands of the original apostles.
In contrast to the claims of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons who insist that a restoration of true Christianity was needed as a result of a complete apostasy from the original faith, Jesus proclaimed: “...I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it” (Matthew 16:18). Since Jesus promised to protect His Church, how could the Christian church have apostatized to the point of needing a new religion to be developed in order to restore it to the earth? The Apostle Paul warned about those who would arise to draw disciples “after themselves” when he stated:
“For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparking the flock; also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.”Acts 20:29-31, NKJV
Indeed, we would do well to heed the words of Scripture and prove all things before welcoming into the fold of Christianity, all churches claiming adherence to Christ.
“But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.”1 Thessalonians 5:21
“I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him...for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.”Galatians 1:6-8
* Unless otherwise noted, all Scripture quotations are from the New American Standard Bible
Pro football games are far more gentlemanly than these “God loves me more thna you” threads.
No.
Baby raping polygamist cultists maybe.
But still....The rest of us are wrong, apostates and whores of Babylon?
Geeze!
Yup .... Romney must have decided to run.
If Mormans are Christians, then Muslims are Christians.
Both faiths started by a prophet that was visited by and angel that declared the Bible to be corrupted. The angel gave both prophets a new set of scriptures upon which to base a new faith.
Both faiths give lip service to the Bible’s old and new testaments, but say it was corrupted, and the new scriptures handed down by the prophet reign supreme.
Both faiths honor Jesus Christ, but neither faith believes he was God in the flesh.
Both faiths deny not just the basic tenants of Christiantiy, but almost every important tenant of Christianity.
I’m not saying Mormans are Muslims by any stretch. But the fact is Mormanism is no closer to Christianity than Islam is. Neither Mormans or Muslims are Christians.
This isn’t meant to be an insult to Mormons either. Stating that Hindus are not Christians is not an insult, it is simply stating a fact.
BTW,
The parallels between the founding of Islam and Mormanism are so eerily similar that it gives one pause as to whether it could actually be a conincidence. It’s well worth anyone’s time to do a parallel study of the founding of Islam and Mormonism.
“Yep, posted by a mormon”
I was asking him. He’s not home it would seem. I see a lot of Mormon articles posted here at FR. Why? I don’t understand. Who cares.
What is a Christian?
If it is someone who trusts in Jesus Christ, as He is presented in the Bible, as their only Savior -
then no, Mormons aren’t Christians.
I echo CC
Ive been both, and Mormonism is not Christian.
They never even WANTED to be called “Christian” until about 25 years ago.
Here is what LDS LEADERS (from LDS sources more authoritative than FAIR have said).
Scripture:
“And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth...”
- Doctrine and Covenants, section 1, verse 30
Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805 - 1844):
My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)and which I should join.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is wellI am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me?
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Joseph SmithHistory, v. 1, pp. 826
“What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270
“...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60
Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 1, p. xl
Prophet Brigham Young (1801 - 1877):
He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong; that they were following the precepts of men instead of the Lord Jesus; that He had a work for him to perform, inasmuch as he should prove faithful before Him.
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 171
“Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 176
“When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was groveling in darkness.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 73
“With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 199
“The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 171
...the time came when Paganism was engrafted into Christianity, and at last Christianity was converted into Paganism rather than converting the Pagans. And subsequently the Priesthood was taken from among men, this authority was re-called into the heavens, and the world was left without the Priesthoodwithout the power of Godwithout the Church and Kingdom of God.
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 22, p. 44
Apostle Heber C. Kimball (1802 - 1868):
“Christiansthose poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking aboutsome of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers’ sermons preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89
Prophet John Taylor (1808 - 1887):
“Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.”
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 167
“Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.”
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 10, p. 127
“What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast.”
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225
“What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.”
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225
Apostle Orson Pratt (1811 - 1881):
“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent.”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255
“But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172
... who, in his right mind, could, for one moment, suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original.
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Bible and Tradition, without Further Revelation, an insufficient Guide, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon No. 3, December 1, 1850, p. 47; see Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p. 383-384
This great apostacy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now. A short time after the death of the last of the Apostles, the Christian Church, what few of them remained, were persecuted from mountain to mountain, from den to den, from one cave of the earth to another, and from nation to nation until they were entirely exterminated and rooted out of the earth. Well, what was left? An apostate Christianity, a Christianity without revelators, without any voice of God, without any Prophets to unfold the future, without visions, without any communications from the heavens.
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 44
This class of men, calling themselves Christian, uniting with the various forms of the pagan religion, adopting many of their ceremonies and institutions, became very popular, and finally some of the pagans embraced Christianity and were placed, as it were, upon the throne, and what they termed Christianity became very popular indeed. How long has this order of things existed, this dreadful apostacy, this class of people that pronounced themselves Zion, or Christians, without any of the characteristics of Zion? It has existed for some sixteen or seventeen centuries. It has spread itself and grown and gone into the four quarters of the earth. It is the great ecclesiastical power that is spoken of by the revelator John, and called by him the most corrupt and most wicked of all the powers of the earth, under the name of spiritual Babylon, or in other words Babel, which signifies confusion. This great and corrupt power is also represented by John as presenting a golden cup to the nations, full of all manner of filthiness and abominations.
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 14, p. 346
But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be. They say, “We have built chapels unto the name of the Lord; we call our Churches Christian Churches, they are called the Church of Christ, St. John’s Church, St. Paul’s Church, St. Peter’s Church, and after others of the ancient Apostles;” and one who had never studied the pattern which God has given of the Christian Church would almost really believe that they are Christian Churches. But there has been a long apostacy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance, and they are represented in the revelations of St. John as a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast, having a golden cup in her hand, full of filthiness and abominations, full of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; that in her forehead there was a name written”Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots.” This kind of a church has existed in great abundance, for as John the Revelator says, she was to have her dominion upon many waters, and she was to make all nations drunken with the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172
Q. After the Church of Christ fled from earth to heaven, what was left? A. A set of wicked Apostates, murderers, and idolaters, who, after having made war with the saints, and overcome them, and destroyed them out of the earth, were left to follow the wicked imaginations of their own corrupt hearts, and to build up churches by human authority, and to follow after the cunning craftiness of uninspired men; having no Apostle, Prophet, or Revelator to inquire of God for them: and thus, because of wickedness, the Church, and Priesthood, and gifts, and ordinances and blessings of the everlasting Gospel, were taken from the earth, and reserved in heaven until the fulness of times, when it was predicted that they should again be restored among men to continue until the end should come.
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, Chapter 16, p. 205
Prophet Wilford Woodruff (1807 - 1898):
“The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called”
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 196
Apostle George Q. Cannon (1827 - 1901):
“After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon.”
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324
Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith (1876 - 1972):
“Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness.”
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 266
“For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the Christian’ churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men.”
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 282
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie (1915 - 1985):
“...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization [Christianity], founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46
... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods.
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375
Prophet Ezra Taft Benson (1899 - 1994):
“This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth...”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 164-165
Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley (1910 - ):
We accept that as a statement which came to him [Joseph Smith’s vision in which he was told all other religions were “abominations”], which is printed, of course, and published in his history as a statement. But we go forward with a friendly relationship, with a respect for people everywhere and with an effort to accept them as we meet them and, where opportunity exists, to talk with them and explain to them what we believe.... We dont criticize them for what they believe. We accept the good that comes of that understanding which they have, but we feel we having something to offer beyond what they have.
- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, interview with Richard Ostling, as quoted in Mormon America, by Richard and Joan Ostling, p. 323
Said he [a Protestant minister] Ive been all through this building, this temple which carries on its face the name of Jesus Christ, but nowhere have I seen any representation of the cross, the symbol of Christianity. I have noted your buildings elsewhere and likewise find an absence of the cross. Why is this when you say you believe in Jesus Christ. I responded: I do not wish to give offense to any of my Christian brethren who use the cross on the steeples of their cathedrals and at the altars of their chapels, who wear it on their vestments, and imprint it on their books and other literature. But for us, the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the living Christ. He then asked: If you do not use the cross, what is the symbol of your religion? I replied that the lives of our people must become the only meaningful expression of our faith and, in fact, therefore, the symbol of our worship.
- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, April 1975
Others:
we can see the situation in which the world now stands that the eyes of the whole world are blinded, that the chuches have all become corrupted, yea every church upon the face of the earth; that the Gospel of Christ is nowhere preached.
- Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph Smith Jr.’s mother, letter to Solomon Mack, January 6, 1831, reprinted, in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, v. 1, p. 216
God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] following the appearance in it of Satan no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.
- Kent P. Jackson, Early Signs of Apostasy, Ensign, December 1984, p. 9
LOL.
This is a PRO-Mormon article, posted by a Mormon.
The can use the same terms but they are not thinking of the same thing Christians are when we speak the same words.
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BINGO. And they have a lot of people fooled by that trick. So do the JW’s
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080226163644AAt2VeZ
Look at some of the answers....
That’s why I asked the question, I didn’t know. Someone else beat you to it. Better luck next time. lol
It seems to me you first must start with the question “Who is God”? Historical and orthodox Christianity has always understood God as Trinity, with Jesus as the unique Son of God, who came into the world and became man for one purpose, to die on the cross as the one atoning sacrifice that was acceptable to God the Father. Because Jesus died and rose from the dead, His Body will never die again and therefore the Holy Spirit was sent into the world to gather all who will be saved into the Body of Christ on earth, the Church. Mormons reject this Gospel wholecloth, and Joseph Smith himself stated that all known were false and therefore he needed to “restore” the Church. So, it seems to me, he excluded himself from what has always been historic and orthodox Christianity.
Here is one test that will determine if what you believe is Christian or not. If you can’t name at least 10 Christians from each century, you must hold beliefs that don’t comport with historical and orthodox Christianity.
Another test would be if you hold to the Nicene Creed.
As I stated in a thread yesterday, there are many on this site that attack the LDS for their novel beliefs, but they themselves hold other novel beliefs and would fail my two part test.
Er... shouldn’t you be posting this as a mormon caucus thread???
I believe, however its important for accuracys sake for people to know that Latter-day Saints believe in the Christ of the Bible. He is our Lord and Saviour, our teacher and example.
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Ok, Norm, LET”S BE ACCURATE...
Mormons believe Christ is a created being, who earned his godhood, atoned for SOME sin IN THE GARDEN by sweating some blood (not dying on the cross), only died to be resurrected, want me to keep going? You left a lot of things out there, Norm.
I can source all of this and more to prove to you that the LDS Christ is a very different Christ than the Bible.
THAT IS NOT THE CHRIST OF THE BIBLE AT ALL! It is the anthesis of the Christ of the Bible.
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