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To: CTrent1564; one Lord one faith one baptism
Boniface VII "we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

So how do you dismiss Boniface and his decree for the Orthodox and non latins?

Seems pretty clear he meant every living human being, does it not?

Was he speaking as a private theologian, not infallible?

306 posted on 01/03/2011 7:53:25 PM PST by bkaycee
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To: bkaycee

yes


309 posted on 01/03/2011 7:56:39 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: bkaycee

bkyaycee:

He was speaking as the Pope and head of state and spoke imprudently when dealing with French King Philip IV. He was involved in trying to state the Pope had authority the Church and is affairs and if the secular authorities would not concede to the CHurch what is its domain, the Pope could render a spiritual sentence [excommunication] and as a secular leader of the Papal states, ally himself with those Kings who wanted to protect the Pope’s right to appoint Bishops, to let Bishops of a country go to Rome to meet with the Pope [the French Kings would not allow that] and use a secular solution [i.e. milatary action] against the tover all other authorities even in secular affairs and thus the Pope was the authority to judge over Kings.

The issue of the last statement dealing with salvation in today’s world implies that only those who are Catholic will be saved. That is a problem today given Christianity has fragmented into Catholic, Eastern ORthodox and Protestant, which has fragmented exponentially.

At the time, there were no Protestants so in writing this to Catholic Kings, he was reminding them nature of his office and the authority the Pope Had in the spiritual realm

Pope Boniface VII had already clearly stated earlier that the Pope did not have any temporal authority outside of the papal states so he was not challening Philip IV’s rule over secular affairs, and in the context of the times, I don’t think his statement can be seen as dealing with the question of the salvation of those who were not practicing Catholics.

The language is problematic and imprudent no doubt but it was directed at Philip IV who was in open conflict with the Pope on how CHurch revenues were handled and his treatment of Papal legates [he arrested one] and there was fear that Philip IV would lead a rebellion against the Church as he has stated that those who had opposed him and supported the Pope in his dispute were his personal enemies.

The Pope was not speaking of any doctrinal question but rather who had spiritual authority over the Church in France, was it the King or the Pope. His language was problematic no doubt and in the context of a more divided Christianity, is subject to interpretations that are not in the context in which the original Bull was issued.

FYI, read up on Philip IV and his disptute with Pope Boniface VII and I think the context of that Bull, even with the problematic language, becomes much clearer.


324 posted on 01/03/2011 8:26:00 PM PST by CTrent1564
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