Happy excommunication dayMartin Luther excommunicated

This Day in History ^ | 01/03/2011 | not stated

[RnMomof7]

On January 3, 1521, Pope Leo X issues the papal bull Decet Romanum Pontificem, which excommunicates Martin Luther from the Catholic Church.

Martin Luther, the chief catalyst of Protestantism, was a professor of biblical interpretation at the University of Wittenberg in Germany when he drew up his 95 theses condemning the Catholic Church for its corrupt practice of selling indulgences, or the forgiveness of sins. He followed up the revolutionary work with equally controversial and groundbreaking theological works, and his fiery words set off religious reformers all across Europe.

In January 1521, Pope Leo X excommunicated Luther. Three months later, Luther was called to defend his beliefs before Holy Roman Emperor Charles V at the Diet of Worms, where he was famously defiant. For his refusal to recant his writings, the emperor declared him an outlaw and a heretic. Luther was protected by powerful German princes, however, and by his death in 1546, the course of Western civilization had been significantly altered.

[Natural Law]

"Why for him and not for Hitler?"

Excommunication was not necessary for Hitler because he has long since renounced his Catholicism and abandoned the Church. At no time time did Hitler claim to be acting on behalf of or in compliance with the Church. His public actions further reinforced his position. Unlike Hitler, Luther continued to claim to be Catholic and had to be publicly thrown out.

[Bringbackthedraft]

Could you come up with three instances before 1173 or after 1300 that would prove your point?................................ 1173 -1300?? Bad years for Popes? Since I wasn’t around during that time I can’t come up with any names, but I do believe that the Pope or Popes were nothing more than Religious Politicians at the time. My info on the Kings vs. the Papacy came from a World History Exam review book, I may be off a little since it was a couple of years ago and the dates may have been outside of the years above. The book may have had names but I wasn’t taking the exam, nor was I that interested in the subject. Whether or not they controlled the Kings isn’t important, they used religious power to control the masses. People today are beyond serfdom and far more educated, so what ever occurred during Luther’s time, I am sure would be handled differently today. I have also heard recently on the radio that the fastest growing Christian Church in the USA is the Lutheran Church. ???? T/F??

[count-your-change]

Somewhere in there the Popes permission to use torture was revoked too wasn’t it? A mere 750 years after being issued.

[Secret Agent Man]

It is well known Charles V knew the political power of the Roman church - most of the time he agreed with the Popes in terms of what THEY wanted done.

The very fact first the Pope issued a bull against Luther condemning him, and then later in 1521 the EMPEROR Charles V CONVENED the Imperial Diet of Worms (not the Pope), and summoned Luther to attend, you cannot say Charles was a secular ruler. Not if you are using the word “secular” as it is used today in 21st century America.

The end result of the Diet of Worms was the Edict of Worms, where the EMPEROR declared Luther an outlaw? Why? Because Luther would not recant his Christian beliefs that he wrote. Further the edict issued by the emperor banned people from Luther’s christian writings and called to burn all existing copies. To say these are the act of a “secular emperor” is ridiculous. The whole reason for the emperor’s edict making Luther an outlaw was RELIGIOUS IN NATURE.

I have my facts straight.

[bkaycee]

Read it again. There was much debate and discussion until Peter spoke. The weight of his words quieted the debate and then they listened to testimony from the field. The final words were said by St James as he was the host bishop for the council. It is still done this way in the Church.

You got that from reading Acts 15? Amazing anachronism.

Acts 15 is great! Imagine that; Peter says we are saved by Faith.

act 15:9 He (God) did not discriminate between us and them (gentiles), for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles.....

19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

It's Wonderful when God brings to mind these GEMS from His Word! Praise His Name, Forever!

[Secret Agent Man]

Why? Because as people sinful Protestants are no different than sinful Catholics. You know, the priests who take celibacy vows and have sex with any and eveything. The Inquisition and murder of hundreds of thousands of people in the name of Christ. Or just wanting a bible in their own native tongue, maybe getting a chance to read it. Propping up the nazis as the national church.

We all can point to problems in each others’ religious histories. To say that invalidates one branch of Christendom, it must invalidate all then.

[Natural Law]

"It is well known Charles V knew the political power of the Roman church"

I'm not saying that the papacy lacked political power and influence but to imply that the HRE was at the command of the Pope is ludicrous. If anything, the Pope served at the pleasure of the Holy Roman Emperor.

That it was Charles V that brought the actions against Luther is proof that Luther's crimes were politically, not spiritually motivated. Luther gave religious cover for the German princes to further defy both the Pope and the Emperor and to seize property and suspend tax and tribute payments. Protestantism was and remains dupes of these German princes.

[HossB86]

“Hitler wasn’t exactly subtle, you know.”

As a military historian by education, I agree. But why nothing formal?

Hoss

[anglian]

Secular historians given access to the Vatican’s archives in 1998 discovered that of the 44,674 individuals tried between 1540 and 1700, only 804 were recorded as being relictus culiae saeculari. The 763-page report indicates that only 1 percent of the 125,000 trials recorded over the entire inquisition ultimately resulted in execution by the secular authority. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56045

[Secret Agent Man]

I didn’t say the Emperor was commanded by the Pope, I am saying he agreed with him. But to ascribe the pope’s actions then as purely spiritual is jsut as stupid as trying to say the emperor’s actions were purely political. IN fact the actions of the pope AND the emperor were both political and religious, with religion being the cover for the political of both. That is the brutal bare truth.

[Jewbacca]

“The choice was be deported or convert if you wish to stay in Spain.”

Which meant death, fleeing from family, homes and business, without restitution, of course.

In short, ethnic cleansing, just like the muslims did to the Jews and do the Christians now.

The fact you defend this shows either you or your denomination to be evil.

[Natural Law]

"But why nothing formal"

See post #201.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Protestants would not have the Word of God, had not the Church protected it for 1,500 years and very carefully hand copied it. Many monks devoted their lives to preserve the Word. You have a complete misunderstanding of the Church. It is not some man made organization, but the Body of Christ on earth, given the authority directly from Christ to add to it all that should be saved. I am amazed at the number of people on this site who pull a verse here and there and come up with a whole different doctrine than any Christian believed for 1,500 years ( i.e. baptism, the Eucharist, sola scriptura, apostolic succession, once saved always saved, the canon of the OT, etc. etc. ) All false doctrines, all started in the 15th century. The funny thing is these same people are horrified because Joseph Smith says the Church was in apostacy and needed to be “restored” in the 19th century.( he was only 4 centuries too late ) Well, Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church and He would be with it always. So when you throw Church doctrine overboard because sinful men were not practicing what they preached, you have the fruit....30,000 denominations all claiming the title of Christ, all started by a man not named Jesus. Some are closer to the truth than others ( Lutheran, Anglican ) some not so much ( Baptist ) and some totally deceived ( LDS, JW, SDA, CS, oneness ) This is modern day Babylon.

[MeganC]

“But why nothing formal?”

Because it would’ve been both a moot point and a needless provocation. During WW2 elements of the RCC worked to undermine the Nazi regime and by not provoking the Nazis I do believe they accomplished more than what would’ve been gained by a purely symbolic excommunication of Hitler.

Bear in mind I’m the non-Catholic saying this, thanks!

[Jewbacca]

"His public actions further reinforced his position. Unlike Hitler, Luther continued to claim to be Catholic and had to be publicly thrown out."

They certainly appeared to get along fine. I don't see any disagreement here.



Hitler and Pope Pious



Again


With Goebbels, no less.





Now, I am not one of those who opine Pious should have done X or Y. He was in a hard place.

I also don't have a position regarding whether Hitler was Roman Catholic or not. It seems immaterial. There are bad people from every religion.

I do, however, disagree with your position that Hitler and the Nazis distanced themselves from the Roman Catholic Church.

The Reichskonkordat is the concordat between the Holy See and Germany, guaranteeing the rights of the Roman Catholic Church in Germany. It was signed on July 20, 1933 by Secretary of State Eugenio Pacelli and Vice Chancellor Franz von Papen on behalf of Pope Pius XI and President Paul von Hindenburg respectively. As a bilateral treaty, it is still valid today.

The Nazis certainly used the trappings and authority of the RCC to their advantage and purported to act with its authority.

If Luther, who wrote a book got ecommunicated, Hitler was certainly "worthy" of such condemnation, as well.

[Jewbacca]

I’d also note this transcript of the negotiations between the Roman Catholic Church and the Nazis for the Reichskonkordat:

At an April 26, meeting with Bishop Wilhelm Berning of Osnabrück, representative of the German Bishops’ Conference, Hitler declared:

“ I have been attacked because of my handling of the Jewish question. The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc., because it recognized the Jews for what they were. In the epoch of liberalism the danger was no longer recognized. I am moving back toward the time in which a fifteen-hundred-year-long tradition was implemented. I do not set race over religion, but I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the Church, and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions. ”

The notes of the meeting do not record any response by Bishop Berning. (Although the Bishop did sign the agreement.)

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

the Nazis acted with the purported authority of the Church behind it? We really need to clean up the education system in this country, the ignorance of history is astounding.

[Claud]

Except I’m not pointing fingers. I’m trying to prevent everyone else from pointing fingers. What has been stated about the Inquisition is plain false. I am trying to say why it is false.

And for the record, I and many others have been hammering on the bishops to excommunicate some of these hosers you mentioned.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

grace alone, in the Church alone, thru faith, thru Divine Revelation alone ( Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition )

You can’t love Christ and reject His Body.

[Jewbacca]

“the Nazis acted with the purported authority of the Church behind it? We really need to clean up the education system in this country, the ignorance of history is astounding.”

Yes, if you don’t know this, your educations is lacking.

The Nazis aptly co-opted the trapping of the Roman Catholic Church to push their agenda, much as the Nazis co-opted German pride, economic disaster, and many other things.

It’s not a slam on the Roman Church; it’s a comment on what the Nazis did.