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Saturday, July 28, 2007

Catholics fiercest anti-nazis in pre-war Germany

As shown by the election figures for 1932.

First the percentage of Catholics.


And then the Nazi vote.


So much for the modern myth. Click on the pictures to show the detail.

Source: Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn ""Liberty or Equality".

1 posted on 12/19/2010 4:37:26 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: narses

I stumbled upon this recently and thought it was very interesting.


2 posted on 12/19/2010 4:38:26 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM (Liberalism is infecund.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Practicing Catholics recognize a higher authority then Hitler ... errr ... Obama


3 posted on 12/19/2010 4:44:11 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

The Auther of this book was recently on Glenn Beck’s show. Deitrich Bonhoeffer openly opposed Hitler from the pulpit knowing how it would end.

Eric Metaxas, “Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy”

http://www.amazon.com/Bonhoeffer-Pastor-Martyr-Prophet-Spy/dp/1595551387


9 posted on 12/19/2010 5:01:25 PM PST by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

There are very important factors other than relgion at play here.
The Rhineland and Ruhr White on white, industrialized and trade unionised.
Bavaria white on white, was literally a Communist state immediately after the war.
Note particularly the geographically small white voting spot that was Berlin yet is black in religion, industrial trade unionism.
Prussia is indeed mostly back on black, it was the gravitas of the centrifugal German state. The others could in historical reference cling outsiders like france, not so the founder of the state if there were to be a state, a culture, a future.


30 posted on 12/19/2010 5:19:06 PM PST by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
So Brian - your core argument here is that anyone who is not Catholic must be an active, faithful and observant Protestant? And what happened to the Nazi Party before 1932? How did they lose the support of the Catholics?
A book published earlier this year sheds some light on the question of religion and the Nazis. In "Catholicism and the Roots of Nazism" (Oxford University Press), Derek Hastings shows how in the early years there was indeed a strong Catholic element in the Nazi movement. He also affirms that there was a sharp discrepancy between the nature of the Nazi regime in power in the 1930s and 1940s and the early movement in Munich in the years following World War I....
-- from the Zenit article Catholics and the Nazis

31 posted on 12/19/2010 5:19:22 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/apr/article397.html

One of the most unforgiveable things the Church did was to allow the National Socialists access to their birth and baptismal records, which they used to identify Jews.
One of the others was the infamous `Rat’ line following the war in which they assisted Nazis fleeing to south America.
I believe the only Catholic Nazi ever excommunicated was Goebbles. His `crime/ was marrying a Lutheran.
The Pope at the time you mention wrote a gushing letter to A. Hitler offering his support and congratulations on his election.
Suggesting that German Catholics and the Catholic church resisted Hitler and the Nazis is pure nonsense.


37 posted on 12/19/2010 5:28:38 PM PST by tumblindice
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
So much for the modern myth.

Very modern. When exactly did this myth crop up? I never heard this until recently. How did this absurd nonsense get started?

71 posted on 12/19/2010 6:35:23 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
In the early elections, there was a strong Catholic center party that took most of the vote. That and if I remember right, a Catholic couldn't be a Nazi at that time because of their fondness for duels.
86 posted on 12/19/2010 8:41:37 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Thanks for this thread. Great reading here.


103 posted on 12/20/2010 6:47:36 AM PST by Not gonna take it anymore
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Don't know if this is a done thread or not.

The other thing to keep in mind is that in 32, most people didn't really know what the Nazi's were about. They heard what they wanted to hear, and kept that up for a long time. They didn't know, or care, about Hitler's personal views, they wanted to be respected and powerful again. Hitler promised, and did that. Reading what people who survived the war in Germany said, one is surprised by how few really understood Meim Kampf, or had even read it. Some of that is the authors trying to avoid guilt, but the letters from the soldiers (remember also the Army turned against Hitler), when they did read it they were shocked. This doesn't mean they are excused, but more that they were willfully ignorant.

Before we judge them, take a look at the political parties in the US. The seeds of similar, if not worse, things are there. Also, remember that the self identified Catholic vote is very much for the pro abortion party. We can (and should) argue about the validity of someone calling them Catholics, but even on the "conservative" side there are a lot of Christians who are willfully blind to what is going on. In short, don't replace the cross with the flag.

104 posted on 12/20/2010 9:28:06 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
You're right, but don't hang too much on it. Catholics had their own party, the Zentrum, or Center Party.

Most of the middle-class, middle-of-the-road parties Protestants belonged to had already collapsed in the Depression, so the Nazi vote was that much higher in Protestant areas.

108 posted on 12/20/2010 5:59:02 PM PST by x
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