Posted on 12/19/2010 4:37:25 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
Sunday, July 29, 2007
Two interesting maps of Germany. On the first, the black areas are those with the highest concentration of Catholics according to the 1934 census:
On the second map, the black areas show the highest concentration of Nazi votes in the 1932 election (white the lowest)
Well fancy that!
The post Catholic Church Conservation:Catholics fiercest anti-nazis in pre-war Germany has larger versions of the maps if you want to see more detail.
You wrote:
“Forced conversions were forced conversions. That’s the way it was done back then.”
Actually forced conversions were relatively rare. The Church taught against them.
Whatever they "taught" no one was listening (for the most part).
Thanks for this thread. Great reading here.
The other thing to keep in mind is that in 32, most people didn't really know what the Nazi's were about. They heard what they wanted to hear, and kept that up for a long time. They didn't know, or care, about Hitler's personal views, they wanted to be respected and powerful again. Hitler promised, and did that. Reading what people who survived the war in Germany said, one is surprised by how few really understood Meim Kampf, or had even read it. Some of that is the authors trying to avoid guilt, but the letters from the soldiers (remember also the Army turned against Hitler), when they did read it they were shocked. This doesn't mean they are excused, but more that they were willfully ignorant.
Before we judge them, take a look at the political parties in the US. The seeds of similar, if not worse, things are there. Also, remember that the self identified Catholic vote is very much for the pro abortion party. We can (and should) argue about the validity of someone calling them Catholics, but even on the "conservative" side there are a lot of Christians who are willfully blind to what is going on. In short, don't replace the cross with the flag.
You wrote:
“Hmm, “the Church” was what between let’s say 9800BC and 600AD?”
The Church was since its founding one, holy, catholic and apostolic. It is so great in its gifts it teaches even the angels about the manifest wisdom of God.
“Whatever they “taught” no one was listening (for the most part).”
The angels listened. Those who wanted to know the truth listened.
The point I'm making is that for MOST (80% or more) of human history since the Ice Age retreat the standards were not set in Rome!
You wrote:
“Actually, the Arians were in charge in much of Western and Northern Europe”
Nope. The Arians were in control of Spain, Southern France, Italy and not much else in Western Europe. They had no control over anything in Northern Europe.
“~ well, them and the ol’boys still into Thor and Odin worship ~ took another 1000 years to get them moved offstage, then the Nazis popped up.”
No. The Arians were done well before the year 700. And less than 600 years after the Arians got into Western Europe every last Odin worshipper was either dead or converted. You seem to have little knowledge about any of these things. And the Nazis “popped up” almost 1600 years after the first Arian barbarians got into the Roman Empire. You seem very confused about these basic things.
“The point I’m making is that for MOST (80% or more) of human history since the Ice Age retreat the standards were not set in Rome!”
For Christianity most of its standards were set in or by Rome: liturgy, law, history, doctrine, etc.
Your point makes no sense and you evidence for you point equally makes no sense.
Most of the middle-class, middle-of-the-road parties Protestants belonged to had already collapsed in the Depression, so the Nazi vote was that much higher in Protestant areas.
Those in America formed their own "church" which still exists.
I gave you the dates of 9800BC to 600 AD, and as far as Christianity is concerned that definitely covers the Arians ~ so whether they were eliminated in 700AD is definitely irrelevant to that point. Prior to the year 1 Fur Shur the Roman Catholic church didn't exist.
You must learn how to read critically.
You wrote:
“The Sapma is definitely part of Western and Northern Europe.”
I have no idea what “Sapma” is.
“The last pagan Sa’ami resident in the Sapma was probably “converted” by the late 1700s.”
Irrelevant. THe Sami were neither Arains nor Odin worshipers. Thus, you are wrong again.
“Those in America formed their own “church” which still exists.”
Again, irrelevant, since the Sami were neither Arains nor Odin worshipers.
“I gave you the dates of 9800BC to 600 AD, and as far as Christianity is concerned that definitely covers the Arians”
You wrote: “Hmm, “the Church” was what between let’s say 9800BC and 600AD?”
Now, tell me where you say anything about Arians in that statement?
“~ so whether they were eliminated in 700AD is definitely irrelevant to that point. Prior to the year 1 Fur Shur the Roman Catholic church didn’t exist.”
Who exactly claims the Catholic Church existed before Christ began His teaching let alone His foundation of the Church?
“You must learn how to read critically.”
You have to learn how to read what you yourself write.
SAPMA stands for San Antonio Personnel Management Association???
You wrote:
“BTW, Vlad, to the degree there were “standards” preparatory to Christianity those were established in Judaism ~ over thousands of years BEFORE Christianity.”
False. What was the standard for the Real Presence before Christianity? What was the standard for indissoluble marriage before Christianity? Again, you’re shown to have no idea of what you’re talking about.
“I think your failure to even think of that suggests you are as hopeless an antisemite today as you were yesterday, or the day before, or even years ago.”
So, since I recognize Christ established a new law, the Church, new standards (look at Matthew 5:28), and instituted a new sacrifice and a new priesthood, I’m anti-semitic?
That has to be one of the most moronic anti-Christ things I have ever heard. And what you’re saying really is anti-Christ because you’re denying Christ did anything new, special or important. I said not anti-semitic. You are anti-Christ, however.
You also can’t discuss even the most basic issues in history. Typical. Gee, I sure hope that government school education is working out for you.
You seem unable to comprehend what that means.
It's "BEFORE CHRIST".
The AD part is Anno Domino and I ended that at 600 AD (and that's due to the exceedingly harsh intellectual and economic climate that prevailed throughout Europe at that time).
If you can't stick your mind in between those two dates we have nothing to discuss.
As far as the Sapma being "part of Europe", it most certainly is. These are also the first Europeans to break out of the Western European refugia at the end of the period of maximum glaciation.
You will have to put away your Southern European bigotry and wrap your mind around the North. Your Gods didn't penetrate the area until quite recent times (historically speaking). Even among the Norse the last Thor worshipper to have a traditional Viking funeral died in the 1700s.
You wrote:
“Your fundamental problem in discussing the issue is I set the start date for Europe as being about 9800BC.”
Your fundamental problem is discussing anything rationally and with facts properly used.
“You seem unable to comprehend what that means.”
You seem unable to comprehend that 90% of what you post is completely irrelevant to any discussion.
“It’s “BEFORE CHRIST”.”
It has nothing to do with the time of the Church so it is irrelevant. You yourself said, “Hmm, “the Church” was what between let’s say 9800BC and 600AD?” If the date you bring up is pre-Church then what has that got to do with the Church?
“The AD part is Anno Domino and I ended that at 600 AD (and that’s due to the exceedingly harsh intellectual and economic climate that prevailed throughout Europe at that time).”
And what has 9800 BC to 599 AD got to do with it? And what does 9800 BC to 30AD got to do with it? The simple fact is that 90% of what you post is useless, irrelevant nonsense.
“If you can’t stick your mind in between those two dates we have nothing to discuss.”
You never had anything to discuss. You have repeatedly shown yourself unable to have a conversation.
You wrote:
“The Sa’ami pantheon since about 850 AD, when permanent contact between them and the then pagan Norse was made, included Odin, Thor, Little Red Man, and Herb Woman.”
So, you’re now saying the Sami only believed in the Norse gods for a lousy 800 or so years? Can you get your story straight? Also, what exactly does any of the useless babel your posting have to do with the election in Germany in 1932? Remember that?
“As far as the Sapma being “part of Europe”, it most certainly is.”
Again, I have no idea what Sapma is. You can keep insisting it’s the cheese the moon is made of for all I care at this point. It’s completely irrelevant. Whether Sapma is Northern Europe or part of your lower intestine has nothing whatsoever to do with the German elections of 1932.
“These are also the first Europeans to break out of the Western European refugia at the end of the period of maximum glaciation.”
So, Sapma are people and not a place? Make up your mind.
“You will have to put away your Southern European bigotry and wrap your mind around the North.”
I have no “Southern European bigotry” since I am definitely 100% Northern European. Your gross ignorance is showing self yet again.
“Your Gods didn’t penetrate the area until quite recent times (historically speaking).”
I have exactly ONE God - the Trinity. What “Gods” are you falsely accusing me of worshipping? Seriously, I hope you summon up the fortitude to answer that question since no matter what you answer it will show you to be a dishonest person.
“Even among the Norse the last Thor worshipper to have a traditional Viking funeral died in the 1700s.”
And that still has absolutely nothing to do with the German election of 1932. Your whole effort in this thread has been an Epic Fail in terms of historical knowledge and common sense. Neither one of those facts will stop you from continuing to embarrass yourself, however. You apparently can’t help yourself.
You never fail to amaze me with your open denial of the legitimacy of Judaism. Jewish prophets announced the coming of a Messiah ~ they are quite relevant to Christianity.
Narses, your guess is as good as mine!
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