[Cronos]

Fred -- if you point out facts, you will get attacked by some folks

Fred said :it was the Catholics who drove back the Muzzie hordes at Vienna, Lepanto, etc."

And John goes off track asking about the present-day and asking a completely different question about the Church as opposed to a state (or states as in the first case)

Don't you KNOW, John, that at Vienna, 1683, Austria, Poland etc. (btw Fred, the Zaporozhian Cossacks, Orthodox, also fought with the Catholics against the Ottomans) fought against the Muzlim hordes, turning back the Ottomans and destroying them utterly so that from that point on Islam has been on retreat. The day on which that happened, 11-September-1683 (9/11/1683) has been looked on as a day of tragedy by Moslems, hence they attacked the US on the same day. Don't you KNOW that?

[John Leland 1789]

But who else might have Catholic-led, Catholic-controlled, or Catholic-influenced armed forces go after in the 15th and 16th centuries? In Europe, the Philippines, and elsewhere?