Posted on 12/18/2010 6:01:48 PM PST by Gamecock
Don’t remember if I pinged you/ don’t know if you saw it, I think it bears repeating.
I recently attended a funeral at a Roman Catholic house of worship. During the singing of the Ava Maria they had a small processional that made their way towards a life-sized statue of Mary, where they placed flowers at the feet of the idol.
Idolatry is as Idolatry does.
They do that at weddings as well, dedicating the bride to Mary ...
Perhaps what you find objectionable is the language, which to a 21st Century American protestant must sound "over the top". That's a cultural thing, though. I believe I posted a link to you a ways back to the Akathist to the Most Holy Theotokos by +Romanos the Melodist (6th century). There are all sorts of appellations of Panagia in that one which seem odd today even to an Orthodox Christian, my favorite being "O Butter Mountain". But again these are cultural markers.
During the Divine Liturgy, right after the Consecration, we chant, in Greek, this:
It is truly right to bless thee, O Theotokos,
ever blessed, and most pure, and the Mother of our God.
More honorable than the cherubim,
and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim.
Without corruption thou gavest birth to God the Word.
True Theotokos, we magnify thee.
Virtually all the important dogmatic theology of The Church concerning Mary is contained in those lines. Everything else we say and chant about her are really just glosses on this. Here's a wonderful chanting of Axion Estin followed by Kyrie Eleison...which this thread sorely needs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR3Y5hDncn4
You wrote:
“Your ‘infallible’ Pope - what will he think?”
What does he think about what? When do we claim he is infallible - do you even know?
“Where’s the unity he desires between you and the muzzies?”
What unity are you talking about?
“Would that be a mortal sin or venial sin to go against his kissy kiss wishes?”
Who are you even talking about? Are you drinking?
Here’s a little celebratory seasonal chant (Tone 4) for those of us who venerate Panagia. This is from the Lauds for the Matins of the Nativity. It was written in the 8th century by +Andrew of Crete.
“Make glad, O ye righteous; greatly rejoice, O ye heavens; ye mountains, dance for joy. Christ is born, and like the cherubim the Virgin makes a throne, carrying at her bosom God the Word made flesh. Shepherds glorify the new-born Child, magi offer the Master gifts. Angels sing praises, saying: ‘O Lord past understanding, glory to Thee!’ It was the good pleasure of the Father: the Word became flesh, and the Virgin bore God made man. A star spreads abroad the tidings: the Magi worship, the shepherds stand amazed, and the creation is filled with mighty joy. O Mother of God, Virgin who hast borne the Saviour, thou hast overthrown the ancient curse of Eve. For thou hast become the Mother of Him in whom the Father was well pleased, and has carried at thy bosom God the incarnate Word. We cannot fathom this mystery: but by faith alone we all glorify it, crying with thee and saying: O Lord past all interpretation, glory to Thee! O come, let us sing the praises of the Mother of the Saviour, who after bearing child still remained Virgin. Rejoice, thou Living City of God the King, in which Christ has dwelt, bringing to pass our salvation. With Gabriel we sing thy praises; with the shepherds we glorify thee, crying: O Mother of God, intercede for our salvation with Him who took flesh from thee!”
Do you have it handy in Greek?
“... Christ is born, and like the cherubim the Virgin makes a throne, carrying at her bosom God the Word made flesh...”
Thank you, Kolo, beautiful.
Just in a book at church, I'm afraid. I'll see if I can find anything online after the Liturgy.
Blessed words. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks!
Indeed.
Even our Sincere Calvinist Brethren will say that MacArthur is “off the Wall” when he goes into his “Lordship Salvation” spiel.
Once he strays into Territory, it is no longer “Sola Fide”.
MacArthur is one of those teachers that seems to dislike EVERY Branch of Christianity, including his own. LOL.
Sad. Because he does it so well! :-)
Hey, Everybody, Merry CHRISTmas!
mark
Uh, no. I think you are misinterpreting the verse. IIRC this was directed at the Serpent and Eve, not "Jesus and Mary."
I believe it is in the New Testament where it is written that we will judge the Angels. So, if Gabriel is bowing to Mary, it could be because she is human, just as you and I are.
They will correct me if I’m wrong but I think most of the people making the most sincere anti-Catholic noises on this thread more likely trace their religious roots to Charles Fox Parham than John Calvin, though they share many similarities.
I spent Thanksgiving with the AG side of my family. During my visit many of their friends and fellow parishioners came by to visit as well. The conversation frequently drifted toward religion since that was what they had most in common. I was a little surprised to hear how much “Maryolitry” and conspiracies revolving around the Catholic Church figured in to their opinions. (Did you know that the Catholic Church is hoarding half the world gold? :-)
It may just be the threads I’m reading but it seems to me that we are seeing more “anti-Name-That-Denomination” threads here. Most are directed at Catholics but a growing number express a dislike and a distortion of LDS beliefs as well. Sadly, I think I’ll add religion to flying saucers and pit bulls as topics I will from now on ignore.
Luther may have believed it, but that belief doesn't make the belief true.
God wouldn't do something like that without a purpose. What would His purpose be in making Mary a "perpetual virgin"? Especially as Jesus has a brother, James. By this logic, James would also have had to have an immaculate conception.
Especially as Jesus has a brother, James.False to fact, a failed view not supported by any true scholarship. Try again.
“Uh, no. I think you are misinterpreting the verse.”
Nope. You are.
I grew up in his church.
However, I did find this:
Mark 3:30-32 (New International Version, ©2010)
30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an impure spirit.”
31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”
Again, Jesus has siblings identified as existing in the Gospels. See also Luke 8:19.
How does this invalidate my point?
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