They corrupt lives as they corrupt the language. No small error.
Posted on 12/17/2010 7:31:07 AM PST by marshmallow
Back when I first joined YIMCatholic, I was going to write posts about my conversion. I hammered out seven posts in pretty rapid succession and then, I stopped writing them until recently.
Many of my posts now are simply my observations of the world which are colored through the lens of a convert to Catholicism. It would be difficult for them not to be. Other posts I've written are of the "look what I just found!" variety, and the "I want to share this with you" type. Call them the discovery posts if you will.
Recently I gave a talk on the Communion of Saints for my parishes RCIA group. Consequently, I've been answering questions of potential converts that have prompted me to explain my conversion to others.
Basically, this has resulted in my having become a neophyte evangelist of sorts for the Church. And though this blog space isn't the forum for heavy-duty apologetics, because others do that better elsewhere, I have always seen my role here at YIMC as one of evangelizing.
Back to my conversion story, when I was first confronting the idea of becoming a Catholic, I had to look hard at the question "Why am I Protestant?" Having just moved cross-country following my retirement from the Marines, I found out that my mother no longer went to church where we had gone when I was growing up. Instead of the non-denominational church I grew up in (and which we were a founding family of), I learned that she now went to a Presbyterian church instead. Hmmm.
Rather than start visiting all kinds of churches, which appealed to me about as much as shopping for a new car, my family and I kept going to the local Catholic parish in our new town while I did research and home improvement projects. One of the first things I looked into was the problem of Catholics and their obviously misguided devotion to the Virgin Mary.
The funny thing is, I had sat in the pews in the Catholic Church with my wife for close to 18 years and I had never really noticed any wacky or overly zealous devotion to Mary. Not at Mass, anyway, and as we didn't stick around much after the conclusion of Mass, I didn't see anything that made me uncomfortable. Truthfully, I was surprised about this and it's probably a big reason why I continued to sit in the pews with my patient Catholic wife for that long a time.
This didn't stop me from believing that weird Marian devotions were happening though, and I assumed talk of her perpetual virginity was just "crazy talk." Like most, I had no idea what the Immaculate Conception was either and I just thought people were referring to Our Lord's conception. I was ignorant, plain and simple. But I had in mind a mission to correct the wrong religious track that my family was on so I started planning the military campaign to retake the spiritual territory I had ceded to the Church. My first target was what I thought would be the easiest: Mary.
Before I went on my "destroy Marian Devotion" offensive, though, I knew I would have to do a little homework. Planning ahead, you see, I figured the best place to start was with the guys who picked up the Protestant Reformation football and ran with it for touchdowns. Follow the winners Frank, and victory will be yours!
But get this. Much to my surprise, nay, shock(!) I had to throw a penalty flag on myself and look for a different angle of attack. Because what I found out was that the Big Three "Reformers" all agreed with the Catholic Church's teachings on the Mother of God!
Here is what I found, courtesy of the site catholicapologetics.info,
Martin Luther:
Mary the Mother of God
Throughout his life Luther maintained without change the historic Christian affirmation that Mary was the Mother of God:
"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God."
Perpetual Virginity
Again throughout his life Luther held that Mary's perpetual virginity was an article of faith for all Christians - and interpreted Galatians 4:4 to mean that Christ was "born of a woman" alone.
"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a Virgin."
The Immaculate Conception
Yet again the Immaculate Conception was a doctrine Luther defended to his death (as confirmed by Lutheran scholars like Arthur Piepkorn). Like Augustine, Luther saw an unbreakable link between Mary's divine maternity, perpetual virginity and Immaculate Conception. Although his formulation of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was not clear-cut, he held that her soul was devoid of sin from the beginning:
"But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin..."
Assumption
Although he did not make it an article of faith, Luther said of the doctrine of the Assumption:
"There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know."
Honor to Mary
Despite his unremitting criticism of the traditional doctrines of Marian mediation and intercession, to the end Luther continued to proclaim that Mary should be honored. He made it a point to preach on her feast days.
"The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart."
"Is Christ only to be adored? Or is the holy Mother of God rather not to be honoured? This is the woman who crushed the Serpent's head. Hear us. For your Son denies you nothing." Luther made this statement in his last sermon at Wittenberg in January 1546.
John Calvin:
It has been said that John Calvin belonged to the second generation of the Reformers and certainly his theology of double predestination governed his views on Marian and all other Christian doctrine . Although Calvin was not as profuse in his praise of Mary as Martin Luther he did not deny her perpetual virginity. The term he used most commonly in referring to Mary was "Holy Virgin".
"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God."
"Helvidius has shown himself too ignorant, in saying that Mary had several sons, because mention is made in some passages of the brothers of Christ." Calvin translated "brothers" in this context to mean cousins or relatives.
"It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor."
"To this day we cannot enjoy the blessing brought to us in Christ without thinking at the same time of that which God gave as adornment and honour to Mary, in willing her to be the mother of his only-begotten Son."
Ulrich Zwingli:
"It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of God."
"I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin." Zwingli used Exodus 4:22 to defend the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity.
"I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary."
"Christ ... was born of a most undefiled Virgin."
"It was fitting that such a holy Son should have a holy Mother."
"The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow."
I remember being blown away by these revelations. I had gone to Christian churches my whole life and I had been told what I was supposed to believe, and I had never been told these things about Mary. I felt a little bit like the fellow wearing tan below, even though I was really acting like the guy wearing black.
And then I thought, "methinks they dost protest too much." And like young Skywalker above, I too leaped with faith and lived to tell the tale. I didn't land on my feet though. Instead, I landed in the lap of Blaise Pascal.
And so began the process of my going back to the Scriptures and to the Church Fathers and back through the history of the Catholic Church, and finally back into the arms of Christ's Church Herself.
Perhaps this post is a prequel in the 2BFrank saga. Sheeeesh!
To read more about the Protestant Reformers views on the Blessed Virgin Mary, and to track down the footnotes too, head on over to catholicapologetics.info. Head over to Scripture Catholic too, and bring your Bibles. Then head over to the Vatican and look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church as well.
Mary, most holy Virgin and Queen of Martyrs,
accept the sincere homage of my filial affection.
Into thy Heart, pierced by so many swords,
do thou welcome my poor soul.
Receive it as the companion of thy sorrows
at the foot of the Cross,
on which Jesus died for the redemption of the world.
With thee, O sorrowful Virgin,
I will gladly suffer all the trials,
contradictions, and infirmities
which it shall please Our Lord to send me.
I offer them all to thee in memory of thy sorrows, so that:
every thought of my mind
and every beat of my heart
may be an act of compassion and of love for thee.
And do thou, sweet Mother,
have pity on me,
reconcile me to thy Divine Son, Jesus;
keep me in His grace and assist me in my last agony,
so that I may be able to meet thee in Heaven
and sing thy glories.
Most holy Virgin and Mother,
whose soul was pierced by a sword of sorrow
in the Passion of thy Divine Son,
and who in His glorious Resurrection
wast filled with never ending joy at His triumph,
obtain for us who call upon thee,
so to be partakers in the adversities of Holy Church
and the Sorrows of the Sovereign Pontiff,
as to be found worthy to rejoice with them
in the consolations for which we pray,
in the charity and peace of the same Christ our Lord.
Amen.
Who’s on your ping list?
Like the words or thoughts used, if an image, statue or picture of you caused me to reflect and focus, by the examples of your life, on the Glory of God or if I believed you were in communion with the saints - yes, but don't hold your breath.
BTW - a graven image is one in which some divine nature or power is presumed. An icon is not a graven image. Catholics do not believe in graven images.
That's it! Redefine the term and then you don't have to worry about committing the sin.
Just like "adoration" is not "worship". Under the Catholic definition, you can't "worship" anything but God Almighty, so no matter what the level of adoration for some idol or person, it does not rise to the level of "worship", even if you've never actually worshiped God a single moment in your life.
Where does your religion come up with these repetitious, unGodly prayers??? It's like your religion intentionally rejects the clear teaching of Holy Scripture...
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Mary doesn't reconcile anyone to anything...Jesus is the only one who reconciles...You guys need to stop perverting the words of God, pretending those perversions are truth...
Mary is merciful???
You serve Mary???
"Co-Redemptrix of the human race."
Please, just reading those words sullies my soul. Those five words betray a craven mindset and a corrupted church.
While it is helpful to know and understand what others believe, may God forgive anyone who utters that decayed sentence.
According to Wikipedia, "Roman Catholic tradition and Mariology include specific prayers and devotions as acts of reparation for insults and blasphemies against the Blessed Virgin Mary" (of which this "prayer" is one.)
This "prayer" is from the Roman Catholic "Raccolta" which is "a book of Roman Catholic prayers for which specific indulgences have been pledged by Popes."
So do you imagine my post was somehow an "insult" to Mary?
Do you believe you're receiving an "indulgence" from God for posting that "prayer?" Time off in purgatory by mouthing this blasphemy?
I don't think that's likely since this "prayer" deflects God's glory away from Him and towards a creature, a common habit among pagans and blasphemers.
That being the case, perhaps Roman Catholics should ditch the indulgences and "other mediators" and go straight to God to ask for His forgiveness for elevating a creature to the status of "god" and worshiping her as "the Mother of God" and as "Co-Redemptrix."
(((shudder)))
Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion." -- Isaiah 41:28-29 "For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.
John 19:25-27 (King James Version)
25Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Pure unadulterated blasphemy!
They corrupt lives as they corrupt the language. No small error.
Again, where did I deny the sinlessness of Christ? Quote the WORDS’that said “Christ is not sinless “
Hoss
I tend to stay away from the Catholic threads because every time I go on one, I feel like I’ve been soiled. I don’t know how you do it.
Well, one passage states that a thousand years is but a day in the eyes of the Lord. But again, you avoid the question. Where in Scripture does purgatory clearly appear and the circumstances of being sent there appear?
Where?
Hoss
I enjoy your posts. You provide links and references. It lets me go back and double check on my own and print out the info. You should see the faces of normal RC's when they see what some of these things really mean. I wish there were some way to reveal the evil of the Marian Cult without all the heated rhetoric, or hard feelings, but I don't see how.
I know you take a lot of heat, but there are people who start to learn the truth because of your efforts.
PS. And it seems that every time there is a Protestant thread, no matter what the topic, it gets soiled by the Catholics.
Also, there is the “other” way: God is able to do what he wills. I don’t have to “work it out;” Christ already did.
Hoss
“NO INSTITUTION SAVES.”
Of course not.
Your view that Christ’s Church is “an institution” is in error, however. It is much more than that.
One last one: I didn’t accuse you of anything; I pointed out something you actually did. An accusation might leave roommfor argument; you misrepresented what was said to fit your argument. I just called you on it, that’s all.
Hoss
reconcile me to thy Divine Son, Jesus; keep me in His grace and assist me in my last agony, so that I may be able to meet thee in Heaven and sing thy glories.
Singing about Mary's glories in Heaven? EEK! Must be another of those unwritten "traditions"
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