Are You More Blessed Than the Virgin Mary?

Desiring God ^ | 12/15/2010 | Jonathan Parnell

[RnMomof7]

In the sermon descriptively entitled, “That Hearing and Keeping the Word of God Renders a Person More Blessed Than Any Other Privilege That Ever God Bestowed on Any of the Children of Men,” Jonathan Edwards writes: The hearing and keeping the word of God brings the happiness of a spiritual union and communion with God. ‘Tis a greater blessedness to have spiritual communion with God and to have a saving intercourse with him by the instances of his Spirit and by the exercise of true devotion than it is to converse with God externally, to see the visible representation and manifestations of his presence and glory, and to hear his voice with the bodily ears as Moses did. For in this spiritual intercourse the soul is nigh unto and hath more a particular portion than in any external intercourse. ‘Tis more blessed to be spiritually related to Jesus Christ—to be his disciples, his brethren and the members—than to stand in the nearest temporal relation, than to be his brother or his mother. Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus, ed. Nancy Guthrie, 57.

[Quix]

Goodness,

How could I forget . . . the

Vatican Alice In Wonderland School of Theology and Reality Mangling

DAFFYNITIONARY

doesn’t seem to have

GROSS HYPOCRISY in it.

What a surprise! /sar

[Judith Anne]

Let's look at what I really said in post 600:

Now, I KNOW you are all going to tsk tsk and say, “What hate!” because that’s what you do. But look in the mirror — can you see your own eyes? Can you see the arrogance, the superior “church lady” smirk?

As for me, I’m going to go with the tax collectors (yes, I know one) the sinners, and the rest of the rabble and sit by the cradle of Baby Jesus, and watch Mary’s smile as she looks at him by Starlight.

YOUR QUOTE: I’m going to go with the tax collectors (yes, I know one) the sinners, and the rest of the rabble and sit by the cradle of Baby Jesus, and watch Mary’s smile as she looks at him by Starlight......Can you see the arrogance, the superior “church lady” smirk?

Your quote made a falsehood out of my statements. Changing around the phrasing to suit a Catholic hating agenda is not only bearing false witness, it smears the character of the one doing it.

Your actions are clear to everyone here.

[Judith Anne]

God loves all equally but not all love HIM, HIS Word. People don't like to hear that because that puts them accountable for their own actions/decisions. They like the warm and fuzzy PC God

I have news: This is, by and large, a forum filled with grownups. Any adult KNOWS that we will all face God someday and as Revelation says, He will judge us according to our works. A "warm and fuzzy PC God" is a fake -- our God is mightier than any sin, any evil, and has conquered it all to save us. The Child in the manger, wrapped in swaddling clothes, would grow up to face the worst the world had to offer, and would be victorious. That is the God we need.

Do you think it is wrong to state a falsehood about what other people believe? The evidence indicates you do not. It is possible that you will learn otherwise.

[caww]

I agree with your post 100%! The only reason the diciples had a hard time understanding was because even then they did not grasp Jesus was going to be crucified...Many times He spoke of His departure...but they simply didn’t get it. So of course they wouldn’t understand Jesus talking about the “new covenant” which was represented by the wine and the bread...and it would be a “hard saying” for the diciples to understand.

[Cronos]

The RabidCalvinistCultdoes what it was meant to do - keep the deceived deceived. --> that is so true.

what a weird group. Instead you can come to Christ's Church, the One Holy Apostolic Church

[Cronos]

Thanks Belt -- Rn, it's a common error to think that lutherans teach consubstantiation, so I do not blame you for repeating it. I just pointed it out to you that one should not say that one has understood something when one has not -- that's no sign of weakness, we can't know everything, but we can research.

Remember that this sub-discussion started in post 306 when Judith asked Belt if "Don’t protestant churches have altars" --> that was directed to the wrong person as Lutherans eve that Christ is present on the Altar, and the True Presence is there in the Eucharist. The Lutherans believe in the True Presence in the Eucharist, they have very orthodox teachings on that point.

That should have been the end of this discussion but then there was a sideways portal in your post 497 about "is the physical more 'real' than the spiritual" --> which is completely unrelated to the topic which this started off at, compounded by your post on " I understand their teaching of con substaniation" which completely deviated from the original post! :)

[Cronos]

Belt

The Supper of the Lord, by the inerrant testimony of the Lord and His apostles, consists both of that which is seen and that which is unseen, of that which is temporal and that which is eternal, of that which is of the creation and that which is of the Creator. It is something that by its very description and definition defies human logic and explanation.

very well written. Increasingly i feel as I wade through the RF grime that perhaps the Orthodox when saying the Western Church is too legalist, are correct. They leave a lot as "sacred mystery" -- which doesn't satisfy the modern mind who wants a scientific explanation, but it makes more sense as religion is in a different sphere than science.

What do you 4 think? Are we all too legalistic? In the first centuries, all of the controversies arose in the East, but those were over philosophical points (If I personally say so), but in the past 500 years they have been in the West over more "nitty-gritty" (let's not jump on which is the gritty and which is the nitty! ;-)

[Judith Anne]

Thanks for sorting everything out. The thing I was asking about was the quote from Pius XII, which in the last line or so mentioned Mary’s altars and got some of the proddies all in a lather. Sorry I asked the wrong person.

But I thought I recalled seeing, the times I have been in a protestant church, altars at the front. Nothing on them, of course.

[Cronos]

That's very weird, you said in post 595

Metmom: It's our business because if .... then people's eternal destiny is at stake

which sound pretty much like judith Anne's relative who she says in her post 600

This reminds me of my black sheep relative.....she tells everyone, the Jews, the Catholics, and the Mormons, that they’re all going to hell, the entire time she’s there. She has this vicious, evil grin as she describes her version of our various theological sins...and is always sure to let everyone know they can always come to her for the TRUTH!.

And, how are your Christmas cards list coming along? Judith brought up that topic about her black sheep relative who's in one wacked out group -- perhaps it's part of your group?-- where She (*black sheep relative now in Met's group or similar*) has these specific Christmas cards; for the Catholics, they all contain a little verse about worshipping idols (and going to hell); for the Mormons, some verse about preaching a false gospel (and going to hell): and for the Jews, some verse about only believers go to heaven, the rest go to hell.

And, does your group also print out Funeral cards like the one this relative gave to Judith Anne? You should have seen the condolences she sent to me after my husband died. “Even though Bubba’s in hell, YOU still have a chance!”

[Cronos]

Blah-blah, Met -- you keep repeating the same canard each post for years even though we've repeatedly told you the same that Christ's Sacrifice was once and for all, that it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church's offering -- that is Church teachingThe sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice. The Eucharist is a sacrifice because it makes present the sacrifice of the cross.

The Catholic Church does not teach that the Mass is a re-crucifixion of Christ, who does not suffer and die again in the Mass.

The Catholic Church specifically says Christ does not die again—his death is once for all.

Yet, it is more than just a memorial service.

[Judith Anne]

What's really hilarious is that my black sheep relative is always writing these little notes about how much she REALLY ALWAYS DEARLY loves us all, and underneath it all you can just feel the hate. No one is fooled.

[Cronos]

Oh great. So now would this presume to tell Lutherans what they believe in? I notice your link is from from bbhchurchconnection which advertises itself as "a family owned independent Christian Bookstore which started in 1939 "

If Belt tells one what he believes in, it's better to say "oh, thank you" and learn rather than dispute further.

[Judith Anne]

Blah-blah, Met -- you keep repeating the same canard each post for years even though we've repeatedly told you the same that Christ's Sacrifice was once and for all, that it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church's offering -- that is Church teachingThe sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice. The Eucharist is a sacrifice because it makes present the sacrifice of the cross.

Could some of these proddie posters be software programs? You cannot reason with a cheap software program. They are not human and cannot learn.

[Cronos]

I believe the Lords Supper is both a symbolic remembrance and the real presence of Christ spiritually to those that believe.

Was that your statement or from your link? Either way, does that answer your question "..is the spiritual less REAL than the physical?"

[Cronos]

though that link you gave is nice. Thanks. It seems like a well-balanced, not spiteful area. Perhaps you should visit?

What is interesting is the point on CCC 1345 As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration. They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did:

On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place. The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.

When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.

Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.

When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.

Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.

He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.

When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.'

When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.171

The liturgy of the Eucharist unfolds according to a fundamental structure which has been preserved throughout the centuries down to our own day. It displays two great parts that form a fundamental unity:
- the gathering, the liturgy of the Word, with readings, homily and general intercessions;
- the liturgy of the Eucharist, with the presentation of the bread and wine, the consecratory thanksgiving, and communion.

/thanks again for the nice link.

[antceecee]

Everytime I see this thread bumped I stop and think... no I am not as blessed as the woman who gave birth to my LORD and SAVIOR! AND... everytime I have to see this bumped through this most holy season of CELEBRATION of the birth of my LORD, which was facilitated by the blessed virgin mother MARY... it is so offensive and saddening to have to encounter this headline.... again and again and again... akin to flogging.

[Cronos]

Statement 1: RnMom's post that Ark = Christ

Statement 2: MetMom's post say that we are all arks

if you accept both statements one and two together as correct then logically that means saying we are Christs

If you discard one of them then the corollary does not follow, but you cannot have both of those statements without arriving at the third, logical conclusion

[Cronos]

PNSM: God loves all equally but not all love HIM, HIS Word. People don't like to hear that because that puts them accountable for their own actions/decisions.

So do you then believe in free will? The choice to choose or reject God?

And you are very correct that

"God loves all equally but not all love HIM, HIS Word."

"If all that is required to attain eternal life is God's love, there would have been no reason for Jesus to give His life. God loves all and He gave all. The ball is in everyone's court to hear and obey or not. And according to Scripture we know many don't. "

--> but again that is not Calvinist teaching, correct, Metmom, rnmomof7?

IIRC Calvinists have admonished others for saying that God loves all of mankind.

[Judith Anne]

Oh, right, there are some people, (according to some Calvinists) who are not elect. They are predestined to hell from all eternity. Is that so? Or am I mistaken?

[Cronos]

Actually, you never explained your post 264 where in response to John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” you said that

He (*St. Thomas*) saw, then believed. Doesn't take anything but having one's eyes opened. Jesus doesn't say he was blessed at all!

1. So (*question*)do you think that St. Thomas was not blessed?

2. This is still a passage about St. Thomas, not anyone else, so to conjecture that all the Apostles who did see and did believe were not blessed is quite incorrect.