Was Mary Sinless?

The Aristophrenium ^ | 12/05/2010 | " Fisher"

[metmom]

Where exactly does Mary being sinless contradict scripture?

How many times do we have to post Scripture to support that?

Luke 1: 46-47 And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

SHE knew she needed a savior....

Romans 3:21-26 21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

1 John 1:8-10 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Mary died? She sinned. That's the proof.

Or does your Gnostic group believe it has esoteric knowledge denied to the rest of us?

*sigh* We refer continually to Scripture and are even castigated for the concept of *sola scriptura* and now you ask if we have some knowledge denied to the rest of you? No, we don't. The Bible is available to all, but it doesn't do anybody any good is it's not read and studied.

Isn't your group's caste-system a little too wacked out?

What *caste-system*? Whose group? Who are you categorizing as what?

[Cronos]

The teaching of the Church I am a humble member of - namely Christ's Church, the ONE Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church teaches us that Christ's sacrifice is what won us our Salvation. Church teaching is that His sacrifice is super-sufficient for our salvation.

Mary was the tool, the ark for holding God. This ark had to be purified, pure, clean, filled with grace to be able to bear God.

If you say as you did The ark was a type of Christ, not Mary then do you believe that Christ was a "container" who contained God?

[houeto]

Rom.3
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

[Cronos]

I'll repeat, if you say as you did The ark was a type of Christ, not Mary then do you believe that Christ was a "container" who contained God?

You DO realise that Christ was 100% God and 100% man, not a container for God's spirit, right?

Why would your group (whichever warped cult it is) believe that Jesus was a container for God's Spirit, nothing more?

If your group does not believe that Jesus was 100% God and 100% man, both natures irrevocably intertwined, but if your group believes that Jesus was possesed by God, then your group is Arian or worse and is not Christian.

[RnMomof7]

If in deed mary was sinless than Christ did not come for her or save her.

That's not what the doctrine says

I do not much care what your doctrine says..I care what Jesus said

Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

If Mary was sinless he did not come for her or die for her..

Who or what are you calling a "tool of Satan" here?

The doctrine is from the pit of hell...it causes men to take their eyes off of Christ and steals glory from God..just what satan loves

[metmom]

GOod point -- so you agree that we Christians accept the term *trinity* on proof texts without the word actually appearing in Scripture, correct?

I don't think anybody has denied that.

I don't see that Scripture alone contradicts that passage. (Eph 4:11-15)

Ephesians 5:25-27 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

The word is all we need to be fully equipped. It's all Jesus ever appealed to as testimony of Himself. It all points to Him...

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

[Cronos]

If you call it JAM instead of James, you expect people to realise you aren't talking about why your group split in two because the pastor served strawberry jam instead of plum jam?

What if I quoted from JAK (Sw. Jakuba)? or IAC (Iacob)? or JAkobsbrevet or யாக்கோபு ? or JAcques?

[Cronos]

"After all these years of debating this, you should be at least aware what it actually says, instead of giving a false impression. "

What is strange is that we and others have repeated ad nauseum of what the Church actually teaches and we still have some folks copy-pasting falsehoods.

[Cronos]

It seems from Rn’s post that her group may be teaching her that her cult says Mary is/was a tool of Satan. Which is not surprising that her group propagates a lot of gnostic errors

[Pyro7480]

I do not much care what your doctrine says

Well, if you're going to argue against it, you should know what it actually says, not one of the many straw men against it.

If Mary was sinless he did not come for her or die for her..

That is the doctrine of man, and not of God. God can do with the merits of His Passion, Death, and Resurrection what He sees fit (they happened in time, but their effects exist outside of time), and He decided to apply them to His own mother. So His shedding of His Blood on the Cross did save her. After all, once He expired on the Cross, "the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, came into the holy city, and appeared to many" (Matthew 27: 52-53). His redemptive act applied to those people who had died before He came into the world.

The doctrine is from the pit of hell...it causes men to take their eyes off of Christ and steals glory from God..just what satan loves

Again, the doctrine of man: the attention on Mary doesn't detract from Christ, but honors Him.

[Cronos]

So, let's see, Catholics tell you what we believe in and what we actually practise, like Catholics are allowed to ask questions

And then YOU purport to tell us what we do and believe? This is just like the other members of your crew who seem to think that they know better about Early christians than Early Christians themselves!

It's hilarious -- does your cult teach Jedi mind-tricks too?

[Not gonna take it anymore]

“Ephesians 5:25-27 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.”

See, right here in Ephesians 5:27, you see the Catholic Church.

[RnMomof7]

If you call it JAM instead of James, you expect people to realise you aren't talking about why your group split in two because the pastor served strawberry jam instead of plum jam?

I guess it is too much to expect Catholics to have bible literacy

Old Testament

Genesis (Gen) Exodus (Exd) Leviticus (Lev) Numbers (Num) Deuteronomy (Deu) Joshua (Jos) Judges (Jdg) Ruth (Rth) 1 Samuel (1Sa) 2 Samuel (2Sa) 1 Kings (1Ki) 2 Kings (2Ki) 1 Chronicles (1Ch) 2 Chronicles (2Ch) Ezra (Ezr) Nehemiah (Neh) Esther (Est) Job (Job) Psalms (Psa) Proverbs (Pro) Ecclesiastes (Ecc) Solomon (Sgs) Isaiah (Isa) Jeremiah (Jer) Lamentations (Lam) Ezekiel (Eze) Daniel (Dan) Hosea (Hsa) Joel (Joe) Amos (Amo) Obadiah (Oba) Jonah (Jon) Micah (Mic) Nahum (Nah) Habakkuk (Hab) Zephaniah (Zep) Haggai (Hag) Zechariah (Zec) Malachi (Mal)

New Testament

Matthew (Mat) Mark (Mar) Luke (Luk) John (Jhn) Acts (Act) Romans (Rom) 1 Corinthians (1Cr) 2 Corinthians (2Cr) Galatians (Gal) Ephesians (Eph) Philippians (Phl) Colossians (Col) 1 Thessalonians (1Th) 2 Thessalonians (2Th) 1 Timothy (1Ti) 2 Timothy (2Ti) Titus (Tts) Philemon (Phm) Hebrews (Hbr) James (Jam) 1 Peter (1Pe) 2 Peter (2Pe) 1 John (1Jo) 2 John (2Jo) 3 John (3Jo) Jude (Jud) Revelation (Rev)

Hope this helps you in the future

[Cronos]

Luke 1: 46-47 And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, Sigh-- didn't we just tell you that Mary was saved by God? She was saved from sin by Jesus Christ, her Son

For all have sinned -- yes, we already asked you, has a new born baby sinned?

Death spread to all men -- Maybe not Elijah, but Mary did die too.

Mary was saved by God.

[Cronos]

Luke 1: 46-47 And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, Sigh-- didn't we just tell you that Mary was saved by God? She was saved from sin by Jesus Christ, her Son

For all have sinned -- yes, we already asked you, has a new born baby sinned?

Death spread to all men -- Maybe not Elijah, but Mary did die too.

Mary was saved by God.

does your Gnostic group believe it has esoteric knowledge denied to the rest of us? Isn't your group's caste-system a little too wacked out?

[Cronos]

If you call it JAM instead of James, you expect people to realise you aren't talking about why your group split in two because the pastor served strawberry jam instead of plum jam?

The KJV calls it JAS. Or is your group a sola non-KJVa scriptura?

[RnMomof7]

Can a Catholic disagree with Catholic doctrine and still be a catholic?

You can ask them WHAT they teach, but you can not question what they teach and still be a catholic

Sola Ecclesia Romanus

Only the Church of Rome is the Rule of Faith

[Cronos]

Furthermore, it's also JAK (Sw. Jakuba),IAC (Iacob),JAkobsbrevet, யாக்கோபு and JAcques?

[Cronos]

Romans 15:16

That I should be the minister of Christ Jesus among the Gentiles so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit."

where the verb hierourgeo (to act as a priest) is used.

All of God’s faithful people share in the priesthood of Christ by virtue of their baptism: "Christ, high priest and unique mediator, has made of the Church ‘a kingdom, priests for his God and Father’"

The whole Church is a priestly people. Through baptism all the faithful share in the priesthood of Christ. This participation is called the ‘common priesthood of all the faithful.’

And John 21

When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. [16] He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. [17] He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.

Catholic priests (also called presbyters which is usually translated as "elders" in most English Bibles) guide the Church under the authority of the bishops (called episkopoi in the New Testament). This is as in scripture

1 Pet 2.9 guide the Church under the authority of the bishops (called episkopoi in the New Testament). quotes from Exodus 19:6, where the people of Israel are called "a kingdom of priests." Isaiah 61:6 says that in the New Covenant times, the restored people of God will be called "priests of the Lord." and just as the whole priesthood of believers included a special calling for the Levites as priests.

[Pyro7480]

Did you not see geologist post above about James’s abbreviation being Jas., not Jam.? Nice trying to conflate a confusion about abbreviations into making a slam about Catholics’ apparent lack of biblical literacy- very charitable.