Posted on 12/05/2010 6:14:57 PM PST by RnMomof7
GOod point — so you agree that we Christians accept the term *trinity* on proof texts without the word actually appearing in Scripture, correct?
Let's go straight to the source, Ineffabilis Deus
We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.
"And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ" (Eph. 4:11–15).It is a circular reasoning which leaves the door open for rival interpretations of scripture to arise -- leading us even to theories of the Great Apostasy and other heresies.
1. “All have sinned...” — now of course a young child has not yet sinned, right? Yet they are tainted with the stain of Adam, the tendency to sin. Like all other descendants of Adam, Mary too was subject to the contracting of original sin. But God saved her, preserved her from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation. Christ was her Savior nonetheless.
The teaching of your church is that Jesus was the only one that ever kept the law perfectly. That would make Him the only sinless person ever born
Mary was the tool, the ark for holding God. This ark had to be purified, pure, clean, filled with grace to be able to bear God.
The OT is all about Christ , not Mary.. The ark was a type of Christ, not Mary . To assign to man (or woman ) anything that is Gods alone is blasphemy
Just as the Ark of the First Covenant was so powerful that even priests who were uncleansed and men who aimed to prevent it from falling could get filled by one touch, so even more so the Ark of the second, greater, covenant had to be pure, filled utterly with grace.
What do you do with the fact that the ark was touched and carried by pagans without them dying? The death of Uzzah was because of his (and Davids) disobedience to Gods commands, not actually "touching" the ark.. catholics have so romanticized Mary that they have built all manner of false teaching about her as tradition
All for God, all by God -- Mary did NOT save herself, she needed salvation and got that from her God, her Son, her Savior. Jesus saved Mary, He was her savior. He saved her, protected her from sin.
Why would one think that was necessary?? Jesus came to walk in a sin filled world, to eat with sinners, and have sinners as his apostles.. If in deed mary was sinless than Christ did not come for her or save her.. because he says He did not come for the righteous..
The Immaculate Conception and the perpetual virginity of mary are both false, non biblical doctrines.
because of that error mary has become the focus of faith for many if not most Catholics.. thus a tool of Satan
It is my understanding that many Protestants accept the Augustinian idea that man is utterly depraved. If so, then it stands to reason that such Protestants should immediately accept the Immaculate Conception doctrine since it strains credulity that God would be born out of depravity.
The problem then occurs of how Mary was preserved free from the stain of original sin from her parents when she even had a human father. Whatever God could do to preserve HER from sin and have her immaculately conceived and sinless, He could do for Jesus without the necessity of her being sinless.
That's where the whole immaculate conception idea falls apart.
Since sin is inherited through the father, Jesus was free of that corruption, no matter how contaminated the world around Him was.
Sin is not greater than Jesus and that is, in effect, what Catholicism is inadvertently saying when they insist, even demand, that Mary have been sinless to keep Jesus sinless (or unstained or uncorrupted or however they want to put it).
I am a convert to the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH. The Holy Spirit led me to the true church, the one that Christ Himself founded.
+++What is JAM???+++
Awww Ann, Do you own a Bible??? If not please consider buying one, it will so enrich your life..
“Jam” is the abbreviation for the Book of James
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jam&c=2&t=ASV
Was Mohammed sinless?
Muslims insist that he (above Jesus Christ whom they recognize in their own unholy book) is “the perfect man”.
The challenges to Christianity always seem to come around Christmas and Easter. Not so much Islam. Why is that?
That's not what the doctrine says. Read my #542. After all these years of debating this, you should be at least aware what it actually says, instead of giving a false impression.
The Immaculate Conception and the perpetual virginity of mary are both false, non biblical doctrines. because of that error mary has become the focus of faith for many if not most Catholics.. thus a tool of Satan
Who or what are you calling a "tool of Satan" here?
Where there any heresies in the early church?
Catholics are told what they Must believe, they are not allowed to question the CHURH ...
Aren't you reading Ann Archy's mind?
Looks like Pio Nono (fascinating character) was trying to bribe Panagia, otherwise, what could the IM possibly have to do with anything he calls on her to do?
Bribe her? LOL! If you want to put it THAT way. ;-)
I agree with you that Blessed Pius IX is a fascinating character. I became immensely fascinated by him after someone gave me a book about his papacy. After reading it, I ended up getting a fuller biography about him, and since then, I've purchased two antique items with his image - a holy card-sized photograph and a metal, both from the 19th century. He's become my favorite pope of the modern era.
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