Was Mary Sinless?

The Aristophrenium ^ | 12/05/2010 | " Fisher"

[jafojeffsurf]

“The sin nature passed through man, the seed. Jesus Father was God himself.’

The point I was making is on post 108.

The original comment was:

“All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God”. That’s in the Bible somewhere; I’m sure of it.”

[presently no screen name]

carrying Christ within her womb. Of course, she was pure and sinless.

Of course? That's human understanding speaking.

Why would anyone ever doubt that?

They know God's Word. And those w/tradition have nullified God's Word so they can't know what they nullify.

"Thus you nullify the Word of God by your tradition that you have handed down.." Mark 7:13

[lastchance]

So many Popes, so few hats.

[armydoc]

No, the Immaculate Conception means that Mary was conceived without (original) sin.

The "Immaculate Conception" was made up out of whole cloth.

[Salvation]

Preserved Sinless from the Moment of Humanity (Dogma of the Immaculate Conception) [Catholic Caucus]
Ark of the new covenant
Blessed John Duns Scotus Champion Of Mary's Immaculate Conception (CATHOLIC CAUCUS)
The Early Church Fathers on the Immaculate Conception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Three Reasons the Church’s Enemies Hate The Immaculate Conception
"Tota pulchra es, Maria, et macula originalis non est in te" (The Immaculate Conception)
Ineffabilis Deus: 8 December 1854 (Dogma of the Immaculate Conception)

[freedumb2003]

*shrug*

I leave it for the reader to come to his/own conclusion.

The backdoor bashing of the anti-Catholics contained in “I am just asking for the ‘TRUTH’” is a VERY old ploy here at FR.

As I have said, I am not a Catholic — but I can see when narrow minds congregate to bash that which they envy or fear.

[metmom]

So God didn't have the power to absolve her as has been described in Catholic canons? Wow, omnipotence is so limiting...

That statement shows a gross misunderstanding of sin and redemption. God cannot look on sin. It cannot be absolved. It can be forgiven with the shedding of blood.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hebrews 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

If God could have simply absolved Mary's sin, He could do it for everyone. Then there would have been no need for Jesus to die.

[lastchance]

That was never asserted. What was asserted is that if one used all to include all that would include Jesus. But we know the understanding of the writer was that Jesus was without sin because Jesus is God. He did not need to clarify this exception.

[Grizzled Bear]

So Catholics should learn from Mary but they don’t - seems nullifying God’s Word is paramount.

Although they aren't Mary's last words, the last words the Bible quotes from Mary are very interesting.

John 2:1-5

On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

“Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

If Mary was some kind of supernatural "coredemtrex," would she not be able to change water to wine? Don't worship Mary; learn from her example.

[presently no screen name]

God’s Word has enough Scripture which warn of tradition and man made rules. It’s HIS KINGDOM, It’s HIS WORD, He’s the ALL MIGHTY.

Is 29:13 The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men”

Mark 7:6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “’These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

[metmom]

Ask RnMomof7, it was her suggestion about the Mother of God.

No. I will not.

YOU made the accusation; it's up to YOU to provide the evidence to back yourself up.

Do it. For once.

[narses]

This thread is thread hopping.

[RnMomof7]

he words of the Archangel Gabriel to Mary: Hail Mary, full of grace the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus
The word, Jesus, is added when Catholics pray the Hail Mary. The angel Gabriel stopped with the word, "womb."
Now, why would the angel Gabriel use the words, "full of grace" -- doesn't that mean with no sin on one's soul? In other words, being full of grace allows no room for sin.

This announcement says nothing about Mary being sinless,Sal

It says she was blessed and honored by God when He chose her to be the mother of Christ.. later Christ said this

Luk 11:27 ¶ And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

[Salvation]

Good grief, man, you have taken Mark 7:13 out of context. Christ was talking with the Pharisees who were putting their law above their actions/faith.

I'll let others judge for themselves. LOL!

Mark
Chapter 7

1

¹ Now when the Pharisees with some scribes who had come from Jerusalem gathered around him,

2

they observed that some of his disciples ate their meals with unclean, that is, unwashed, hands.

3

(For the Pharisees and, in fact, all Jews, do not eat without carefully washing their hands, ² keeping the tradition of the elders.

4

And on coming from the marketplace they do not eat without purifying themselves. And there are many other things that they have traditionally observed, the purification of cups and jugs and kettles (and beds).)

5

So the Pharisees and scribes questioned him, "Why do your disciples not follow the tradition of the elders ³ but instead eat a meal with unclean hands?"

6

He responded, "Well did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me;

7

In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines human precepts.'

8

You disregard God's commandment but cling to human tradition."

9

He went on to say, "How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition!

10

For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Whoever curses father or mother shall die.'

11

Yet you say, 'If a person says to father or mother, "Any support you might have had from me is qorban"' ⁴ (meaning, dedicated to God),

12

you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother.

13

You nullify the word of God in favor of your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many such things."

14

He summoned the crowd again and said to them, "Hear me, all of you, and understand.

15

Nothing that enters one from outside can defile that person; but the things that come out from within are what defile."

16

) ⁵

17

⁶ When he got home away from the crowd his disciples questioned him about the parable.

18

He said to them, "Are even you likewise without understanding? Do you not realize that everything that goes into a person from outside cannot defile,

19

⁷ since it enters not the heart but the stomach and passes out into the latrine?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

20

"But what comes out of a person, that is what defiles.

21

From within people, from their hearts, come evil thoughts, unchastity, theft, murder,

22

adultery, greed, malice, deceit, licentiousness, envy, blasphemy, arrogance, folly.

23

All these evils come from within and they defile."

24

From that place he went off to the district of Tyre. ⁸ He entered a house and wanted no one to know about it, but he could not escape notice.

25

Soon a woman whose daughter had an unclean spirit heard about him. She came and fell at his feet.

26

The woman was a Greek, a Syrophoenician by birth, and she begged him to drive the demon out of her daughter.

27

He said to her, "Let the children be fed first. ⁹ For it is not right to take the food of the children and throw it to the dogs."

28

She replied and said to him, "Lord, even the dogs under the table eat the children's scraps."

29

Then he said to her, "For saying this, you may go. The demon has gone out of your daughter."

30

When the woman went home, she found the child lying in bed and the demon gone.

31

Again he left the district of Tyre and went by way of Sidon to the Sea of Galilee, into the district of the Decapolis.

32

And people brought to him a deaf man who had a speech impediment and begged him to lay his hand on him.

33

He took him off by himself away from the crowd. He put his finger into the man's ears and, spitting, touched his tongue;

34

then he looked up to heaven and groaned, and said to him, "Ephphatha!" (that is, "Be opened!")

35

And (immediately) the man's ears were opened, his speech impediment was removed, and he spoke plainly.

36

¹⁰ He ordered them not to tell anyone. But the more he ordered them not to, the more they proclaimed it.

37

They were exceedingly astonished and they said, "He has done all things well. He makes the deaf hear and (the) mute speak."

[freedumb2003]

>>If God could have simply absolved Mary’s sin, He could do it for everyone. Then there would have been no need for Jesus to die.<<

Not quite. He needed a sinless vessel to bring the Savior. And Jesus’ life and death were much more than a simple exemption for Original Sin (although that was an important aspect). Jesus HAD to be born of a virgin, live as a man, then die as a martyr for God to save all of mankind.

Else nothing else would make sense.

Linear logic doesn’t apply in the case of the Divine Tapestry.

[RnMomof7]

Amen... and that was my intended point.. Our salvation rests on Christ.. not His mom

[narses]

Indeed, so? You make one claim. Luther and the entire Universal Church disagree. You are out there on your own. Sad.

[freedumb2003]

Quote mining from the Bible — another classic.

[lastchance]

Jesus is also fully human. How does that figure in your statement?

[RnMomof7]

I ask, again, what does YOUR Church teach?

My church teaches we are saved by Christ what does yours teach again?