Posted on 11/13/2010 7:33:36 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
Religion is often the bane of God, hard to say how much nonsense he took in. Just pray for him and keep a graceful heart.
“We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.” - H. L. Mencken
I can’t understand why atheists want to convert us to their way of thinking when we are very happy in our belief. For us to convert them would bring them faith and paradise and make us happy as we love our brothers and sisters, but for them to convert us, what would they achieve? We couldn’t be as happy, without our moral compass so what would it gain them?
Thanks AOF, I agree but they come off sounding pretty sophisticated to college students- really they ar just sophists” arent they?
Prepare yourself to continue the conversation and pray that God would create the circumstances so that the conversation will continue. I will be in pray for you and this young man.
God bless
I am grateful brother- thank you-
We are not the ones who draw people to God. That task is given to the Holy Spirit. You can’t convince him about anything.
You either worship yourself — the created — and look to yourself for all things, or you worship Him who created you — the Creator — and recognize your dependence on Him.
Faith is a gift. If an atheist was never offered it or rejected it...that's the way she goes. I can hope the atheist lives as though he believes. It seems that an atheist who lives as though there is a God is better off on the long road than a theist who behaves as though there isn't.
I started my 'faith journey' in a Catholic seminary when I was thirteen. It turned out that wasn't the road I took. I don't think my faith was that strong in those days. My faith started to gel when I was about thirty five. The conduit for my faith, the UPS delivery guy, was the evangelist, John.
In the movie, How the West Was Won, James Stewart said, "I'm a sinful man...deep dark sinful." I think he was playing me when he spoke his lines. John told me I still have a shot at the Blue Ribbon, the Championship Belt. I believe it to be a faith thing.
Heck's bells, the whole New Testament was about a bunch of guys Jesus should have kicked to the curb if he was thinking clearly at the time. Praise the Father and Holy Spirit that he didn't.
Real faith might be the greatest gift of them all. Do you suspect Jesus knew that the adultress was likely to resume her favorite activity the first chance she got or that Zacchaeus would likely resort to the thieving that provided his wealth staring Monday morning? I think he did. I also think if the adultress or Zacchaeus thought for a second, they might just try to do better starting today, even if they failed. They would keep trying.
I think when Jesus delivered the Last Supper Discourse, he had laser vision toward a guy about two millennium hence who needed it...a great deal.
Faith starts out as a seed. If you are lucky it will grow into a Redwood. Today mine is more of a Norway Pine. I never argue with people who have no faith. I will encourage folks to take a run at John. For decadent pleasure, read the (Old Testament) Story of Joseph or Tobit...both stories of irony and faith.
In the end if people refuse to believe, that's the way she goes. Faith is a gift.
That’s a good point, Pastor Bill, they would sound deep to a college student. And it’s tough to rebut a lot of it in the short time you usually have with these young people, especially with the diminished attention spans and whatnot.
Unfortunately, much of what calls itself "atheism" is actually "Anti-Theism."
A good point of argument is the volume of evidence outside the Bible that points to Jesus and the Apostles. Additionally, you should demonstrate how the Apostles had everything to lose and nothing to gain by continuing to preach the good news.
That is so true, true even to the revelation of Romans 1- thanks Bboop!
I usually start with my witness. The things I’ve seen. The way I’ve seen God work in my life. The sorrow and gratitude I feel at the same time for Christ- the joy at what he’s done and the shame at what I’ve done. I bring in at that point references to scripture that I see directly reflected in my own life. And the person I’m talking to if I know them well.
It’s all about my relationship with Christ. Not the dogma. My behavior fliwsfrom that... Not religion. You have to make it real and personal. N argument can overcome a hardened heart. It only hardens them more. Only divine live and showing holim the fruit of the spirit won’t with prayer can soften his stance.....
I have been using this book with my students for several years. There is an excellent DVD series with him presenting this material, and the study guides are very useful!
Bottom line: he discusses how to shift the burden to the skeptic, getting them to explain what it is they believe, and how they came to that position. Meanwhile, he has you looking for inconsistencies in their arguments, and how to diplomatically bring them into the discussion.
Your young friend sounds like a perfect Presidential candidate for the Democrat Party.
Just ask him:
1. If there’s no God, we exist for no real reason or purpose, but are just a lucky accident. What’s the purpose of pain, suffering, death, love, joy, etc?
2. If there’s no God setting absolutes of good and bad, then good and bad, right and wrong, are really meaningless words because men define “good” and “bad” all by themselves. Good and bad are just arbitrary and relative and totally subjective. What’s good for me might really suck for you. Truth also becomes relative (ie what works for you may not work for me).
3. Our total lives are meaningless. We are born only to slowly die under the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Some faster than others. None of our experiences matter. Whatever character issues we go through, mean nothing. Overcoming hardships, in the end, don’t matter. We die. We cease to exist. If we have kids, they will cease to exist. Eventually the earth will cease to exist. There will be no material records of us anywhere. Joy, love, whatever, it’s all an illusion. It’s chemicals in our brains that help a couple stay together to raise kids.
4. Why get up in the morning? Why keep playing along in this random, arbitrary system of living? If there are no absolutes and there’s no right and wrong, why not just live the way you want to live? Why not steal? Why not cheat to get ahead? There’s nobody to punish you. It might be considered by some to be “wrong” but “wrong” is a relative term. So what if most of society considers it wrong, it still boils down to being just a widely-held PREFERENCE. They can’t point to any absolute source that says it’s wrong, there is no God defining right and wrong.
Hi Pastor Bill. You’re starting to smell kinda funny...
Christianity is by far the most just compassionate and good argument ever made.
Secularism is by contrast empirically ruthless capricious unjust and brutal.
It is intellectually absurd to be ashamed of Christianity.
Habermas was right.
We have nothing else intellectually but Christianity. We are otherwise bankrupt.
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