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To: metmom; count-your-change

The perpetual virginity of Mary is not an assumption. It is a fact passed on through tradition but not recorded in the Gospel. You choose not to believe it and I choose to believe it. But it is not an assumption that someone makes without knowledge. Someone had the knowledge and passed it on.

There are things about my family that have never been recorded. (in fact most things about my family have not been recorded, but that it beside the point). For example, my grandfather volunteered for the General Kolchak army, and since that would have earned him a firing squad under the Bolsheviks, he destroyed any evidence he had of it. But he told me that. It is a fact that has no documentary corroboration. It is still a fact. I tell it to you as a fact. Now, you may decide not to believe me. That makes it fact in which you don’t believe. But it is a fact nevertheless. You can tell me, — Annalex, I don’t believe you. Very well. But you cannot tell me —Annalex, you are making an assumption about your grandfather. I did not make an assumption based on some circumstantial evdidence. I have direct evidence. Same with Perpetual Virginity of Our Lady.


4,926 posted on 12/07/2010 6:01:42 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex

To assume a thing is to accept it as fact without proof (a rough definition). That’s why stories fall into the area of tradition, explanations or stories without proof like “George Washington slept here” in how many places in New England?

Obviously the tradition started somehow, somewhere, with someone, for some reason but not necessarily due to knowledge based upon fact.

You cite your grandfather’s experience, a reasonable story and as such you accept his story as fact without documentation, you assume he is telling the truth, perhaps with justification.

Is there contradictory evidence? Say some record that shows your grandfather was elsewhere? No? But if there were then the evidence both for and against would have to be weighed by others (he’s your grandpa, you’re not going to question his word) before arriving at a decision as to whether the family tradition is true, factual.

So to with the tradition for the perpetual virginity of Mary. Weighing evidence for and against the evidence against is the stronger and more reliable.
The Bible makes no reference, however oblique, to the idea, there is no theological argument or principle in Scripture that would suggest or demand such perpetual virginity of Mary, and there is the contradiction of the Scriptures themselves.

“Same with Perpetual Virginity of Our Lady.”

So what is the supporting evidence? Tradition? If “It is a fact passed on through tradition but not recorded in the Gospel.”, What are these “facts” and where are they found?

“Someone had the knowledge and passed it on.”

O.K., Who and how?


4,928 posted on 12/07/2010 8:52:49 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: annalex; metmom; count-your-change
I did not make an assumption based on some circumstantial evdidence. I have direct evidence. Same with Perpetual Virginity of Our Lady.

We know what you consider evidence....

Truth telling is important. Telling lies is also important, even if it is about Mary and not about Jesus. .... 4,881 posted on Monday, December 06, 2010 8:25:16 AM by annalex
4,930 posted on 12/07/2010 9:20:29 AM PST by presently no screen name ("Thus you nullify the Word of God by your tradition that you have handed down.." Mark 7:13)
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To: annalex; metmom; count-your-change
The perpetual virginity of Mary is not an assumption. It is a fact passed on through tradition but not recorded in the Gospel. You choose not to believe it and I choose to believe it. But it is not an assumption that someone makes without knowledge. Someone had the knowledge and passed it on.

There are things about my family that have never been recorded. (in fact most things about my family have not been recorded, but that it beside the point). For example, my grandfather volunteered for the General Kolchak army, and since that would have earned him a firing squad under the Bolsheviks, he destroyed any evidence he had of it. But he told me that. It is a fact that has no documentary corroboration. It is still a fact. I tell it to you as a fact. Now, you may decide not to believe me. That makes it fact in which you don’t believe. But it is a fact nevertheless. You can tell me, — Annalex, I don’t believe you. Very well. But you cannot tell me —Annalex, you are making an assumption about your grandfather. I did not make an assumption based on some circumstantial evdidence. I have direct evidence. Same with Perpetual Virginity of Our Lady.

Please understand, in no way do I wish to demean the word of your grandfather but your logic is faulty in that you are basing your belief on hearsay. No scholar, judge, any professional, would accept it as fact.

You have no direct evidence concerning your grandfather nor is there any direct evidence concerning the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.

In both instances you base your belief on the unverified word of men.

4,944 posted on 12/07/2010 1:33:35 PM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: annalex; count-your-change; presently no screen name
I have direct evidence. Same with Perpetual Virginity of Our Lady.

What? Have you talked to her? Did she tell you? Are you a trained medical professional who did an exam?

What's your direct evidence that Mary was perpetually a virgin?

4,992 posted on 12/08/2010 6:50:52 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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