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To: stfassisi; metmom; MarkBsnr; Natural Law; Cronos; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; ...
Protestantism is not united in faith alone, otherwise you would be united in things like infant Baptism ,etc..and of one mind in scripture interpretations with concrete teachings that can never change.

In truth, Bible-believing Protestants ARE (at least reasonably) united in faith alone. Among Bible-believing Protestants, those who practice infant baptism and those who do not ALL agree that any form of water baptism does NOT confer salvation. We are all united that concerning salvation it is faith alone, NOT water baptism. It is likewise with scripture interpretation. While there are differences on some issues, Bible-believing Protestants are united that scripture in fact teaches faith alone for salvation.

4,454 posted on 12/02/2010 11:36:00 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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To: Forest Keeper
While there are differences on some issues, Bible-believing Protestants are united that scripture in fact teaches faith alone for salvation.

AMEN, FK!

The more I read of Reformation literature, the more I find unity among Protestants.

I would prefer they all be Calvinists, but that is tangential to the fact that Protestants agree with THE FIVE SOLAS OF THE REFORMATION...

Sola Scriptura
Soli Deo Gloria
Solo Christo
Sola Gratia
Sola Fide

4,455 posted on 12/03/2010 12:02:56 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Forest Keeper

Dear brother, you all have different versions of what you call faith,(while I agree we are all united in our belief that Christ is God Incarnate and the Holy Trinity),protestants are separated from each other on interpretations of Scripture and how to practice faith.

True “Faith alone” would mean protestants would be united in the fullness of the faith.

Basically ,protestants are always searching for meanings of Scripture in many cases,which is all well in good because at least you’re on a quest for truth,but unfortunately many end up falling into very bad heresies and end up misleading others in repeating some of the same heresies that Irenaues and others dealt with.

Having a concrete(dogmatic) faith with Sacraments and 2000 plus years of consistency to back up this teaching up is a united faith.

Dear Brother,I have often though that you could be someone who could convert to orthodox/catholic because you don’t seem closed minded in protestantism alone.

I really wish that some protestants would really take the time to read the Church fathers other than “Blessed Augustine alone” because I truly believe it would help you at least understand authentic historical faith was not many different beliefs.

Hope all is well with you and your family?

I will pray for you at Adoration today


4,469 posted on 12/03/2010 5:22:17 AM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Forest Keeper

Forest Keeper wrote:
“In truth, Bible-believing Protestants ARE (at least reasonably) united in faith alone. Among Bible-believing Protestants, those who practice infant baptism and those who do not ALL agree that any form of water baptism does NOT confer salvation. We are all united that concerning salvation it is faith alone, NOT water baptism”

I am sorry, Forest Keeper, but yours is not a true statement.
Augsburg Confession, Article IX:
“Our churches teach that Baptism is necessary for salvation, that the grace of God is offered through Baptism, and that children should be baptized, for being offered to God through Baptism they are received into His grace. Our churches condemn the Anabaptists who reject the Baptism of children and declare that children are saved without Baptism.”

On the other hand, regarding salvation and faith, it is said in Augsburg Confession, Article IV:
“Our churches also teach that men cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works but are freely justified for Christ’s sake through faith when they believe that they are received into favor and that their sins are forgiven on account of Christ, who by His death made satisfaction for our sins. This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight (Romans 3, 4).”

There is no conflict in saying that baptism conveys/confers salvation and that salvation is through faith alone. First, Baptism, just like the preached Gospel and the Lord’s Supper, gives just what Scripture teaches it gives, forgiveness, life, and salvation. Second, faith, just like Scripture says, receives the forgiveness, life, and salvation God conveys/confers through Baptism, the preached Gospel, and the Lord’s Supper. In a similar way, there is no conflict in saying Christ alone saves. Of course! Christ won salvation for all (no limited atonement here!), Baptism conveys salvation to all, and Faith receives salvation in all. That some reject the salvation Christ won and that is conveyed in Baptism, preaching and the Supper is the fault not of God, but of man. God gives faith through the Gospel in Word and Sacrament, but fallen man can reject God’s gracious promises. That too is thoroughly scriptural.

Generic Protestantism has a problem with the first. Roman Catholicism has a problem with the second. But both of the above teachings are scriptural, and both are the position of Luther and all true Lutherans. That is historical fact.

The proof of this is that the Roman Catholic Confutation of the Augsburg Confession roundly condemned Article IV and accepted Article IX. Similarly, the Apology (Defense) of the Augsburg Confession (this would be a year later in 1531) expends a mere three paragraphs restating what is in Article IX (Baptism), but 400 paragraphs defending what is said in Article IV (Justification by faith).

Infant baptism and baptismal regeneration are thoroughly scriptural and well represented in the writings of the early church fathers.

This is a demonstration of two things: First, Martin Luther (and those who supported him) was not afraid to defy Rome on the basis of scriptural and apostolic teaching. Second, he was not afraid to agree with Rome on the basis of scriptural and apostolic teaching. The important point was Scripture.

Scripture alone determines what is to be taught as Christian. This is a good example of the fact that Luther was no mere protester against Rome, that is of course the origin of the term Protestant, but a Reformer of the Church, desiring only to return the Church to its Scriptural foundation. In the case of Rome, when tradition militates against the clear teaching of God’s Word, tradition must be corrected, just as Jesus Himself made clear in His dealings with the chief priests and scribes, and as is evident in the writings of the prophets of the Old Testament. Old does not equal true. In the case of John Calvin or the Anabaptists, when human reason or experience militates against the clear teaching of God’s Word, human presumption must be corrected, just as Jesus Himself made clear in His dealings with all, and as is evident in the writings of the Old Testament prophets. Reasonable does not equal true.

Lutherans will forever be separated from Rome on the one hand and Geneva on the other. But that is the price of confessing “Sola Scriptura.”


4,470 posted on 12/03/2010 5:27:37 AM PST by Belteshazzar
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