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To: metmom; The Theophilus
So you don't cherry pick +Augustine?

How about when Augustine says
We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic and which is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard (The True Religion 7:12 [A.D. 390]).

We believe in the holy Church, that is, the Catholic Church; for heretics and schismatics call their own congregations churches. But heretics violate the faith itself by a false opinion about God; schismatics, however, withdraw from fraternal love by hostile separations, although they believe the same things we do. Consequently, neither heretics nor schismatics belong to the Catholic Church; not heretics, because the Church loves God, and not schismatics, because the Church loves neighbor (Faith and Creed 10:21 [A.D. 393]).

In the Catholic Church . . . a few spiritual men attain [wisdom] in this life, in such a way that . . . they know it without any doubting, while the rest of the multitude finds is greatest safety not in lively understanding but in the simplicity of believing . . . [T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in her bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 4:5 [A.D. 397]).

4,266 posted on 12/02/2010 8:31:03 AM PST by Cronos (Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis (And the word was made flesh, and dwelt amonst us))
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To: Cronos; metmom
So you don't cherry pick +Augustine?

All the time. Augustine was not infallible. When there is something that I believe Augustine has correct, its fair game to include his commentary into the discussion. I don't make my arguments based on the fallacy of Appealing to Authority, rather commentary has value in filling in the discussion with insights from others. Among the scholarly, it offers an understanding of the history of certain ideas, and when placed into the context of the environment and prevailing opinion of that era, gives us all an appreciation for what others saw and what they missed.

Its the property of fools to disregard the accumulated experience, knowledge and opinion of those who have gone before us and I am not threatened by Augustine's differing opinion, rather I investigate it and see where we differ and why so that I may either affirm or correct what opinion I hold.

I recommend to you the same.

4,281 posted on 12/02/2010 10:24:56 AM PST by The Theophilus
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