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To: mas cerveza por favor
You got that wrong. Reread the article you quote.

Can you post another Cathchism of the Church that state other than the one Natural Law quoted to me in Cathachism 1992?

You realize there is a schism between much of the East and Rome. Before the split, the majority Eastern view was correct.

So you believe in the doctrine of the eastern church rather then the western church? Please remember the eastern church followed John Cassian (a student of Pelagius). The western church followed Augustine (Pelagius' arch rival).

Have you read St. Augustine's magnum opus City of God?

Yes, as a matter of fact I have. What part are you referring to? But before we go down this path, I would also refer to Augustine's statement in the Treatise of the Predestination of the Saints, that once he fully understood St. Cyprian's doctrine he recalled most of his life's work to destroy it. This shows the admirable quality of Augustine's faith to be true to doctrine without regard to his own work.

According to Congressional testimony, the US Communist Party infiltrated American Catholic seminaries with thousands of sleeper agents who were trained to pretend orthodoxy until they reached high rank.

So, it's a conspiracy? Our Lord called them tares.

2,479 posted on 11/17/2010 4:53:50 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; Natural Law
Can you post another Cathchism of the Church that state other than the one Natural Law quoted to me in Cathachism 1992?

You should have pinged Natural Law. You say that Christ was not a victim but a sacrifice? Your quibble is with Mr. Webster, not with the Church.

I would also refer to Augustine's statement in the Treatise of the Predestination of the Saints, that once he fully understood St. Cyprian's doctrine he recalled most of his life's work to destroy it.

In the Treatise, St. Augustine said:

"I was in [...] error, thinking that faith whereby we believe on God is not God's gift, but that it is in us from ourselves, and that by it we obtain the gifts of God, whereby we may live temperately and righteously and piously in this world. For I did not think that faith was preceded by God's grace, so that by its means would be given to us what we might profitably ask, except that we could not believe if the proclamation of the truth did not precede; but that we should consent when the gospel was preached to us I thought was our own doing, and came to us from ourselves. And this my error is sufficiently indicated in some small works of mine written before my episcopate."

Yes, the Catholic Church teaches that faith is dependent upon grace. Apparently, Augustine did not immediately grasp that point after his conversion, but his study of Catholic writings completed his understanding. Augustine only withdrew a few small works written before he became a bishop and before he wrote "The City of God." Please tell me what part of St. Augustine's writing you think conflicts with Catholic teaching?

So, it's a conspiracy? Our Lord called them tares.

Indeed, "an enemy hath done this."

2,492 posted on 11/17/2010 6:02:47 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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