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To: HarleyD; Natural Law
Can you post another Cathchism of the Church that state other than the one Natural Law quoted to me in Cathachism 1992?

You should have pinged Natural Law. You say that Christ was not a victim but a sacrifice? Your quibble is with Mr. Webster, not with the Church.

I would also refer to Augustine's statement in the Treatise of the Predestination of the Saints, that once he fully understood St. Cyprian's doctrine he recalled most of his life's work to destroy it.

In the Treatise, St. Augustine said:

"I was in [...] error, thinking that faith whereby we believe on God is not God's gift, but that it is in us from ourselves, and that by it we obtain the gifts of God, whereby we may live temperately and righteously and piously in this world. For I did not think that faith was preceded by God's grace, so that by its means would be given to us what we might profitably ask, except that we could not believe if the proclamation of the truth did not precede; but that we should consent when the gospel was preached to us I thought was our own doing, and came to us from ourselves. And this my error is sufficiently indicated in some small works of mine written before my episcopate."

Yes, the Catholic Church teaches that faith is dependent upon grace. Apparently, Augustine did not immediately grasp that point after his conversion, but his study of Catholic writings completed his understanding. Augustine only withdrew a few small works written before he became a bishop and before he wrote "The City of God." Please tell me what part of St. Augustine's writing you think conflicts with Catholic teaching?

So, it's a conspiracy? Our Lord called them tares.

Indeed, "an enemy hath done this."

2,492 posted on 11/17/2010 6:02:47 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor; Natural Law
You should have pinged Natural Law. You say that Christ was not a victim but a sacrifice?

You're correct that courtesy should have been followed and I should have pinged Natural Law. However, you are most uncorrect to ascribe that Christ was a victim in His going to the cross. This only illustrate a blinding love for the Church over a love for God's written word. What a pity.

Augustine only withdrew a few small works written before he became a bishop and before he wrote "The City of God." Please tell me what part of St. Augustine's writing you think conflicts with Catholic teaching?

Do you mean in a "Treatise of Predestination of the Saints" or "The City of God"? Catholics do not accept the premise in Predestination. It must have something to do with scriptures.

2,536 posted on 11/18/2010 2:12:29 AM PST by HarleyD
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