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To: count-your-change; metmom; mas cerveza por favor
About those successors to the original twelve..Church historian Philip Schaff writes: "The oldest links in the chain of Roman bishops are veiled in impenetrable darkness." For that reason, it is impossible for the RCC to substantiate its claims of papal succession from Peter to the present Pope.- Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (Grand Rapids: eerdmans, 1910), vol. 2, pp. 164-165.

But don't let that stop them from pulling Popes out of their pointy hats..

1,777 posted on 11/14/2010 8:35:13 AM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: smvoice

Yes, quite so. Schaff’s History is excellent.


1,786 posted on 11/14/2010 10:37:31 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: smvoice
Church historian Philip Schaff writes: "The oldest links in the chain of Roman bishops are veiled in impenetrable darkness." For that reason, it is impossible for the RCC to substantiate its claims of papal succession from Peter to the present Pope.- Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (Grand Rapids: eerdmans, 1910), vol. 2, pp. 164-165.

Amen. Schaff is a great historian.

But don't let that stop them from pulling Popes out of their pointy hats..

lol. There's a reason for those points...


1,863 posted on 11/14/2010 5:38:00 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: smvoice; mas cerveza por favor; Religion Moderator; Jaded; Judith Anne; Legatus; maryz; NYer; ...
About those successors to the original twelve..Church historian Philip Schaff writes: "The oldest links in the chain of Roman bishops are veiled in impenetrable darkness." For that reason, it is impossible for the RCC to substantiate its claims of papal succession from Peter to the present Pope.- Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (Grand Rapids: eerdmans, 1910), vol. 2, pp. 164-165.

You have purported this to be a direct quote, in reality it is only a PARTIAL QUOTE and the remainder is YOUR COMMENTARY.

Here is the ACTUAL QUOTE which says something far different from what you claimed:

HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH, Chapter IV

The oldest links in the chain of Roman bishops are veiled in impenetrable darkness. Tertullian and most of the Latins (and the pseudo-Clementina), make Clement (Phil. 4:3), the first successor of Peter;228 but Irenaeus, Eusebius, and other Greeks, also Jerome and the Roman Catalogue, give him the third place, and put Linus (2 Tim. 4:21), and Anacletus (or Anincletus), between him and Peter.229 In some lists Cletus is substituted for Anacletus, in others the two are distinguished. Perhaps Linus and Anacletus acted during the life time of Paul and Peter as assistants or presided only over one part of the church, while Clement may have had charge of another branch; for at that early day, the government of the congregation composed of Jewish and Gentile Christian elements was not so centralized as it afterwards became. Furthermore, the earliest fathers, with a true sense of the distinction between the apostolic and episcopal offices, do not reckon Peter among the bishops of Rome at all; and the Roman Catalogue in placing Peter in the line of bishops, is strangely regardless of Paul, whose independent labors in Rome are attested not only by tradition, but by the clear witness of his own epistles and the book of Acts.

Lipsius, after a laborious critical comparison of the different catalogues of popes, arrives at the conclusion that Linus, Anacletus, and Clement were Roman presbyters (or presbyter-bishops in the N. T. sense of the term), at the close of the first century, Evaristus and Alexander presbyters at the beginning of the second, Xystus I. (Latinized: Sixtus), presbyter for ten years till about 128, Telesphorus for eleven years, till about 139, and next successors diocesan bishops.230

It must in justice be admitted, however, that the list of Roman bishops has by far the preeminence in age, completeness, integrity of succession, consistency of doctrine and policy, above every similar catalogue, not excepting those of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople; and this must carry great weight with those who ground their views chiefly on external testimonies, without being able to rise to the free Protestant conception of Christianity and its history of development on earth.


1,900 posted on 11/15/2010 5:53:29 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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