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To: annalex
It is then a church that is orthodox in doctrine and in communion with the Pope.

Christ is the head of the church, His body. He is the stone the builders rejected that the church is built on.

There is nothing in any of Peter's writings which even refer to his alleged position of being pope, the head of the church. He made no recorded singular major correct decisions as an apostle. He leaves no written instructions on how his successor is to be identified much less chosen.

Catholics claim that Peter was the first pope, but there's a huge gap in time about 300 years, IIRC, between Peter and the recorded beginning of the institution we know of as the Catholic church. And there's not even the kind of unity within that that Catholic claim.

The unity of believers is the unity through the Holy Spirit, not the unity of church membership.

1,201 posted on 11/09/2010 5:36:24 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
There is nothing in any of Peter's writings which even refer to his alleged position of being pope, the head of the church. He made no recorded singular major correct decisions as an apostle. He leaves no written instructions on how his successor is to be identified much less chosen.

Correct! Paul is the one who issues instructions on appointing oversears, elders and deacons. The papacy is the arch usurper.

1 Tim 3:2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)

1 Tim 4:1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

1,204 posted on 11/09/2010 6:45:59 AM PST by bkaycee
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To: metmom
Christ is the head of the church, His body

That is very true but in Matthew 16 (as well as Luke 22 and John 21) Christ singled St. Peter out as the Apostle in charge of the visible Church that is His Church. From this the scripture compells us to cnclude that the Church Chirst build is foundationally connected to the person of St. Peter and is orthodox, that is is built fully in accordance with the intention of Christ.

St. Peter did refer to his legacy past his life time thusly:

[11] For so an entrance shall be ministered to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. [12] For which cause I will begin to put you always in remembrance of these things: though indeed you know them, and are confirmed in the present truth. [13] But I think it meet as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance. [14] Being assured that the laying away of this my tabernacle is at hand, according as our Lord Jesus Christ also hath signified to me. [15] And I will endeavour, that you frequently have after my decease, whereby you may keep a memory of these things. [16] For we have not by following artificial fables, made known to you the power, and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ; but we were eyewitnesses of his greatness (2 Peter 1)

Note that St.Peter refers to the founding of the papacy as "laying away of this my tabernacle" and ensures that after his death the witness of the Apostolic Church will continue, "as our Lord Jesus Christ also hath signified".

The manner of papal election changed a few times int he past and may, for all we know, change again. This is not a dogmatic teaching of the Church, and is a matter of Chruch self- governance.

The list of popes is without interruption from St. Pater. The use of the attribute "Catholic" as opposed to "local" or "heretical" is from early 2c. Google it.

1,310 posted on 11/10/2010 6:36:39 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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