In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[bkaycee]

The Bishop Of Rome (the Papacy had not yet been invented) did not have Primacy over the entire Church!

It is just breathtaking the lack of historical knowledge of Roman Catholics as they try to read back into history and scripture a modern understanding of the papacy.

[OLD REGGIE]

I looked it up at the Catholic Encyclopedia. This is what they said about Honorius' letter in question:

"The letter cannot be called a private one, for it is an official reply to a formal consultation. It had, however, less publicity than a modern Encyclical. As the letter does not define or condemn, and does not bind the Church to accept its teaching, it is of course impossible to regard it as an ex cathedra utterance. But before, and even just after, the Vatican Council such a view was sometimes urged, though almost solely by the opponents of the dogma of Papal Infallibility."

The Catholic Encyclopedia, while useful, cannot speak oficially on behalf of the RCC. However, an Ecumenical Council can, and does, speak "infallibly".

And with these we define that there shall be expelled from the holy Church of God and anathematized Honorius who was some time Pope of Old Rome, because of what we found written by him to Sergius, that in all respects he followed his view and confirmed his impious doctrines. [THIRD COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE, SESSION XIII)

[mas cerveza por favor]

Your quote confirms that the Pope is Patriarch of the West. Most Greeks, Egyptians, and Ethiopians split from Rome. Armenians and Lebanese remained never separated. All these various Eastern Churches retain responsibilities for naming their own bishops. The primacy of the pope is in doctrine, not in appointing bishops to each far-flung Eastern Patriarchy.

[mas cerveza por favor]

Truth is in HIS WORD. Get what you call ‘facts’ straight. What the RCC calls as ‘facts’ has NOTHING to do with THE TRUTH, the ONE and ONLY TRUTH, God’s Word.

I mean that you should get your facts straight about what the Church teaches. Stop making false representations about her doctrine.

[mas cerveza por favor]

The Catholic Encyclopedia, while useful, cannot speak oficially on behalf of the RCC. However, an Ecumenical Council can, and does, speak "infallibly".

What is your point. No where does the council say Honorius' letter was infallible. How does it dispute the Catholic Encyclopedia.

[metmom]

For the time being, you are correct. Such a lack of will is not historically unprecedented. At the appointed time, the Holy Spirit will supply the will and good will overcome evil once again.

What's the matter? Those men don't have the backbone themselves to take on a task like that?

Then they don't deserve the position that they're in.

If it's true that communist sympathizers infiltrated the RCC to bring it down, they've been far more successful that you guys could imagine.

So the Holy Spirit is waiting for what? Why the delay from God to clean house for what you guys say is HIS organization here on earth through which to bring men to Him?

If salvation is through the Catholic church, why would God want to drag converts through a sewer first to save them?

You mean, you don't expect men to deal with what God clearly calls sin without consulting Him first? Do they need His direction to root out sin?

And they don't think that God is not going to hold them accountable for every sin committed in His name against those children in the meantime???

Good grief, there's so many problems with your excuses as to why the RCC doesn't IMMEDIATELY get off its corrupt, complicit, collective behind and act on this.

[bkaycee]

If Mary’s body was not assumed to heaven, where are her relics? The Church, especially the Early Church, treasured the relics of her saints. Where are the relics of her most admired saint?

"Apparently", Mary's cloak is in Aachen Germany.

Does that now disprove the assumption?

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/germany/aachen-cathedral

So, if we don't have relics of them, we should "assume"(cough) they have been assumed.

[metmom]

The Church had always believed that Mary committed no sins and that her body was lifted to heaven upon apparent death or sleep.

"apparent" death?!?!

Now she didn't really die?

What next? She resurrected herself?

If she committed no sin, she didn't need a savior and therefore lied when she sang her song in Luke and said *God, my savior,*.

But then if she lied she wasn't without sin.

[OLD REGGIE]

What proof do you have that Caesar died of stab wounds from Brutus and fiends. The history is established. You may reject it if you wish.

It is not possible to establish history with fiction. Repitition of a lie is nothing more than a lie repeated.

[mas cerveza por favor]

Good grief, there's so many problems with your excuses as to why the RCC doesn't IMMEDIATELY get off its corrupt, complicit, collective behind and act on this.

You are talking to somebody that has written letters to bishops and Rome and protested in from of bishop's offices and houses holding signs demanding action. I am not making excuses for them. They certainly will be judged. As St. Chrysostom, bishop of Constantinople, said "the floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops."

[Belteshazzar]

metmom wrote:
“Funny thing is, Catholics like to portray Luther as a Protestant from the start who intended to start his own religion. They conveniently over look the fact that he WAS indeed a Catholic priest. His wanting to see the Catholic church cleansed from the corruption that infested it in his day is not much different than those Catholics here on FR who want to see the Catholic church cleansed from the corruption which is infesting it today.”

This is correct.

Luther, upon his coming to understand what the Holy Scriptures were really saying about the righteousness of God and how it comes to be ours - by faith - recognized that the ship, or ark if you like a little more biblically attuned analogy, that is the church of our Lord Jesus Christ, had broken free of its moorings and was adrift on the perilous sea of human wisdom/tradition/superstition/experience/habit/arrogance/whim. It had to be brought back to its proper and godly moorings, that is, secured to the unchanging and inerrant Holy Scriptures, the written Word of God. To put it another way, the Roman-ness that had crept into the church over many centuries had to be purged from it, leaving it simply catholic - small “c” catholic - and thus simply Christian and truly apostolic. It needed the same treatment Josiah gave to the temple and priesthood of his time.

With such purging would and should go purgatory, Mariolatry, intercession of the saints, works righteousness, supererogation and the whole corrupt and misguided monastic/sacramental system that goes with it, the improper mixing of the two kingdoms (i.e. church and state), the soul-destroying confusion of Law and Gospel - in essence everything for which the so-called infallible magisterium stood for and defended with all its might. What would be left would be the ministry of reconciliation, that is, the ministry of the Gospel in Word and Sacrament as instituted by Christ, whose prime directive was to bring the Good News to all nations and to serve the royal priesthood that is the people of God, the disciples of Jesus Christ. Christ Himself, who never left His church, see Matthew 28:20, would be acknowledged once more as the only Head of the church, and thus there would be no need of a so-called vicar of Christ (there never had been such a need).

[presently no screen name]

Stop making false representations about her doctrine.

My accusations are not false - the RCC teachings are from the pit. Of course, the RCC doesn't consider that as 'fact'. I will NEVER stop pointing out the RCC as the counterfeit church until they stop being the counterfeit church. The ball is in their court, not mine.

[mas cerveza por favor]

If she committed no sin, she didn't need a savior and therefore lied when she sang her song in Luke and said *God, my savior,*.

Theology 101: At the very least, she would need a savior to cleanse her of original sin.

[OLD REGGIE]

the Church teaches homosexuality is a sin

Well, it might dance around the subject but the word "sin" is absent from this dance.

That was an unsupported assertion.

Dance over!

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

Where is homosexuality defined as a sin?

[mas cerveza por favor]

Mary's cloak is in Aachen Germany. Does that now disprove the assumption?

If there is only a second class relic and no first class relic (bones), that further supports the argument for assumption.

[OLD REGGIE]

Acknowledgment of a claim of historicity is not acknowledgment of fact.

Protestant historian Philip Schaff acknowledged numerous testaments of Petrine succession from widely varying sources.

Please show me where Schaff acknowleged any of this "testimony" as factual.

Repetition of an untruth does not make it true.

[RnMomof7]

mas = the Church does not define doctrine explicitly unless it is necessary to counter an heresy. Explicitly defined teachings are always based upon implicit teachings that have existed for many years or since the beginning of the Church. Petrine infallibility has been operational since it was established by Christ and exercised by Peter's early successors.

I asked what heresy the Immaculate conception and assumption addressed

MAS responded=Denial of these things. The Church had always believed that Mary committed no sins and that her body was lifted to heaven upon apparent death or sleep.

So now people NOT believing something is a HERESY ???? The early church Fathers did not teach this.. The Catholic Encyclopedia admits that the first “genuine” written references to the Assumption come from authors who lived in the sixth to the eight centuries: Actually it was the 13th century before it became a common belief in the Roman church .

So the pope could make a doctrine saying Jesus was a space alien because people do not believe it?

Catholic doctrine is only valid for Catholics..the definition given means LOTS of catholics must not have believed it huh??

I think the definition that infallible doctrine is only made to address heresy is a lot of hot air.. it goes well with the lies made out of whole cloth.

[presently no screen name]

And around and around the Vatican playground the Catholics go. And everywhere that Mary went deception was sure to follow.

[mas cerveza por favor]

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are [...] homosexual practices.

What is your confusion?

From the Douay Catholic Catechism of 1649
CHAPTER XX - The sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance
Q. 925. HOW many such sins are there?
A. Four.
Q. 928. What is the second?
A. The sin of Sodom, or carnal sin against nature, which is a voluntary shedding of the seed of nature, out of the due use of marriage, or lust with a different sex.

[mas cerveza por favor]

My accusations are not false

The Church is not a secret society. She does not conceal teaching in degrees. All her doctrine is publicly available to you. It is calumny represent teachings as Catholic that do not come from Church doctrine.