Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
Does that include priests who molest boys?
The Spanish Inquisition was not a papal inquisition but rather was an endeavor by the King of Spain as he dealt with the actual and suspected false converts to Catholicism who were accused of treasonously helping the Muslim. Yes, the bulk of them were Jewish converts, so called Marranos or Coversos, and if they declared that they are in fact Jewish, the Inquisition lost all interest in them, -- but the Spanish Court, by the same token, gained an interest.
Protestant Huguenots slaughtered by the Inquisition
I don't think there was any inquisition operating, if you refer to the Barholomew's Night. Vladimir might know more.
Well, the Church does not offer that as a proof of he infallibility. It is just what the Church proposes for your salvation; it is consistent with the scripture, but you need to have faith in order to consent to it.
Yes, good point. CDF did not do enough by a stretch. This is what I propose: call it for what t is, Holy Inquisition, establish an office staffed from Rome in US archdioceses, call up the likes of that den of coneheads at the Notre Dame and most other "Catholic" colleges, examine their beliefs thouroughly, compare their statements to other statements and papers they published, and effect either a public recantation of heresies, or pulbic excommunication, or perhaps exhonerate those who are orthodox. Also, examine instances of priests and other clergy accused of pedophilia, homosexuality, or simply fornication, defrock the guilty according to the canon arleady in place, and send the files to the District Attorney whenever civil laws appear to be broken. Good old fashioned Inquisition is what I want.
I never said the Catechism teaches that the Church is fallible. It teaches, exactly what you said, that the individual pastors are fallible and that the Church is positively infallible in the matters of faith and morals. In political patters, there is no such claim.
Why, the covenants God has with Abraham and then Moses are fulfilled in the Church. They are, perhaps, partly in operation with today's Jewry, to the extent that they choose to remain in them, but they are operating in full with the Church.
What unmitigated balderdash!
That assertion obviously flows from the EXTREMELY UNWARRANTED BRAZEN ASSUMPTION
THAT
.(110) The entire body of the faithful, anointed as they are by the Holy One,(111) cannot err in matters of belief.
EQUALS AND REFERS TO:
MAT 16:18:
This [KNOWLEDGE that Jesus is THE Rock of Scripture and all history] is the rock on which I will put together my church, a church so expansive with energy that not even the gates of hell will be able to keep it out. [Quix annotated MSG version]
Such slippery rubber 'Bible' logic is common with rabid clique RC's and the Vatican as a whole. Entire edifices, skyscrapers of heretical nonsense parading as major Vatican dogma is commonly built on toothpick splinters for a foundation. Simple to relatively simple Scriptures are twisted to hell and back and into all manner of convoluted nonsense.
There's NO WAY that verse is referring to personal or group infallibility of any collection of mortals--Spirit-filled or otherwise. It's not even the topic by focus or implication.
It is brazen deception to believe and teach otherwise.
It is most certainly not the least bit about the most similar magicsterical bureaucratic power-mongering self-serving class of RELIGIOUS elites most akin to the RELIGIOUS rulers of Jesus' day. Christ labeled all such accurately for all time: a brood of vipers; sons of satan; white-washed tombs. Their characters, their nature, their goals, their rationalizations, their style, . . . have not changed much in 2,000 years. The only difference is the label over the door and the fact that the Vatican pretends to pay some attention to the New Testament.
Likewise:
25-28Husbands, go all out in your love for your wives, exactly as Christ did for the church—a love marked by giving, not getting. Christ's love makes the church whole. His words evoke her beauty. Everything he does and says is designed to bring the best out of her, dressing her in dazzling white silk, radiant with holiness. And that is how husbands ought to love their wives. They're really doing themselves a favor—since they're already "one" in marriage.
SIMILARLY HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with infallibility of any RELIGIOUS personages, mortal or otherwise; . . . CERTAINLY NOTHING whatsoever to do with any Vatican ruling RELIGIOUS elite self-serving magicsterical bureaucratic clique of powermongering politicians polishing their rationalizations and convoluted RELIGIOUS diplospeak.
That verse is clearly about CHRIST HIMSELF PERFECTING HIS BODY THE CHURCH UNIVERSAL made up of all believers saved by His Blood and walking with Him. WHICH, BTW, other than legally in His Blood--HE HAS YET TO DO.He certainly WILL do exactly that, however, IN HIS TIME AND IN HIS WAYS--evidently largely without any involvement by the Vatican whatsoever . . . except maybe for scattered incidental groups of Charismatic RC's here and there.
Therefore, yet again, BEARING FALSE WITNESS against Dr E seems to be the RELIGIOUS RITUAL OF CHOICE for a number of RC cliques hereon.
Anyone who has a gnat's worth of understanding of Dr E would know any such act or thought would never cross her consciousness and certainly not be acted on in the least. Any allegation otherwise is brazen unwarranted assaultiveness.
As to RELIGIOUS CHARLATANISM . . . HERE'S AN A VERY BRAZEN RC LIST OF EXAMPLES OF THAT:
Below are the examples
of exalting other deities.
They are real.
They are serious.
They are owned,
operated in,
manifested in,
heart-felt wallowed in
by millions of Roman Catholics around the world.
Pretending otherwise does not change the facts.
White washing it with magicsterical diplospeak
doesn't change the facts.
Rationalizing it with 101 weasel words
doesn't change the facts.
.
.
.
the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.
.
.
.
Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.
.
.
.
ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE: .
.
.
Here's the title:
And it carries the official sanctions of:
ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.
WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR
Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .
Here they are:
However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.
p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .
p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.
5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.
6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.
"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor
p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence
p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18
p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"
p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]
p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]
9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]
p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]
5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]
p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."
p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"
p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."
Nothing formally prevents that from happening. However, it is not happening because for the Inquisition to be effective it needs to come from Rome. The local bishops are, for reasons known to them, unwilling to do public excommunications.
If any person, clerical or not, is guilty of crimes against the law of the land, the "state" should already have all the power it needs to prosecute the suspect
Of course. That goal is secondary as far as the Inquisition is concerned. The primary goal of the Inquisition is pulbicly, and not latae sententiae excommunicating heretics who have a public role. Evidence of crime might come across in this but it is not likely since the Church already cooperates fully with the civil authority.
Why do you need any federal authority to help you take care of your own religious business?
Indeed we don't; I never claimed we do.
Propagandists do not need to be logical. If one hot button works for propaganda purposes, it is pressed, and if another button cancleing the first one works at another time, that, too is pressed.
You wrote:
“I don’t think there was any inquisition operating, if you refer to the Barholomew’s Night. Vladimir might know more.”
Huguenots were not slaughtered by the Inquisition. I wouldn’t be surprised that some had been tried by the inquisition, but they were not executed by the inquisition under any circumstance. St. Bart’s Day Massacre had nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
Ummmmmmmmmmmm
welllllllllllllllllll
ummmmmmmmmmmm
That was before they didn’t before they did before they didn’t before they did . . .
or . . .
they were part of that church before they weren’t before they were before they weren’t before they were.
And besides, Mary covered all that with White Hankys which means they were still infallible because the White Hanky coverings were labeled a fresh basket of INFALLIBLE WHITE HANKYS.
They’ll probably say it covers strip-tease clown Masses, as well.
Because in the terms of the following Stations of the Stations of the White Hanky . . .
It is the Vatican’s divine right to be duplicitous etc.:
2. Black/white icon of duplicity, double standard dance
8. Icon of the rubber daffynitionary
9. Icon of the rubber logic text
10. Icon of hubris to the supreme degree
11. Groping for any explanation but the truth
12. Icon to the holy flip-flops in word meanings and arguments
13. Icon to the kill-the-messenger-in-worshipful-behalf-of-mary strategy
14. Icon to the fantasized divine right, to be correct, pristinely sanctified & perfectly flawless in all respects in all cases all the time, regardless.
15. Icon to chronic & obsessive inconsistency.
17. Icon to the undivine right of terminal snootiness to the max.
Besides . . . how on earth can such elitist priests train such boys up right in the infallible, perfectly pristinely 100% holy church without lots of very instructive hand’s on training? That too, by daffynition had to be infallible and perfectly done . . . by daffynition.
More practice with those bearing false witness habits, I see.
Yes that is fine by me so long that we remember that some of these natural branches are broken off. There are many Jews who are far from ignorant in matters of Christianity who deny Christ knowingly. I don’t see how is the Jewish gene going to save them.
“No wonder the Pauliwogs are so perpetually confused.”
Leaving aside the obvious (arrogant?) disapproval of the Lord in His choice of an apostle - but then the papal eminence has never been shy about correcting the Lord, if Protestants are “Pauliwogs” then Catholics are what? “Peter ______s”? Propriety prevents me from filling in the blank, but the possibilities are numerous ... Alliteration? Maybe. Assonance? Could be. Onomatopoeia? Interesting. Homoioteleuton? Possible. Rhyme? Ooooh ... Oh. Embarrassing. Alright. I’ll stop now.
The Protestant lie is systematic since it follows from the axioms that salvation is by faith alone and the rule of faith is in the scripture alone pretty much logically, and these two are a lie as anyone who would care to open the Holy Scripture would ascertain in 20 minutes of reading.
The propagandists that populate these threads indeed procede about their task illogically, but Protestantism as a whole is a product of the logical German mind.
Yes; I am often surprised that the Protestants, of all people, dispute that point.
MORE unmitigatedly brazen hogwash.
So, when did any representation of the collection of all believers saved by Christ's Blood take over the Middle Eastern Real Estate the BIBLE--THE WORD OF GOD--says Israel will take over?
When did Christ return and the Mount of Olives clive into--turning into a big valley the dimensions and direction of which the Bible outlines?
When did the Anti-Christ set up his image in the rebuilt 3rd Jewish Temple and demand all worship it--whereupon the Jews realized they'd been had and start fleeing as they are slaughtered by the thousands? . . .
When in the last 2,000 years has ever man, woman and child ON THE PLANET had to bear a mark without which they COULD NOT buy or sell?
It's embarrassing to see such ignorance of Scripture pontificated by folks claiming to be Christian.
Because, as I tried to explain, the Church teaches that she is infallible in the matters of faith and morals, and also teaches that individual Catholics can be fallible in all matters, and that, finally, cooperation with the torturers was wrong whoever was guilty of it. The fact that the Church is in fact as a whole fallible in matters of politics or science can be deduced but it is not expressly taught.
Perhaps, that is because it is not really the business of the Church to fiigure out economics or astronomy. There was a time when everybody thohgh that the Earth is flat. It follows that everybody in the Church thought that the Earth is flat. So every single Catholic was in objective error. But on the other hand, the Church never taught anything about the shape of the world, and the Church cannot be at fault for something she did not teach as an institution.
We have a real conundrum here, like a hospital grading a surgeon based on whether he can ride a bicycle.
annalex wrote:
“The propagandists that populate these threads indeed procede about their task illogically, but Protestantism as a whole is a product of the logical German mind.”
Yes, I suppose that is so. It could have been an English mind, but Wyclif died so soon that only his bones could be burnt at the stake. It could have been a Slavic mind, but Jan Hus was burnt at the stake (after being promised safe passage by papal authority). So, yes, I guess it ended up being German.
It is a fine point you make, fine. Balanced, ethnically sensitive, enlightened.
And “logical German mind” would be offset by ... what? I would fill in the blank, but I leave it to the more balanced, sensitive, and enlightened to do so.
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