[Paragon Defender]

I wouldn’t want to say you are wrong but your insistence as part of your doctrine says all others are wrong and worshiping in a state of apostasy.

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We didn’t say it. God did. I guess he didn’t mind that you might be offended. He’d rather you listen up.

[MHGinTN]

God spoke through whom, where, at what time ... and it’s not in the BofM, so we are all ears to know whom the Mormon god spoke through/to.

[Vendome]

Thanks for your response. I still don’t understand.

What was the purpose of Christ’s 3 day fight for our souls if not give us salvation through redemption and now LDS says there is more and it wasn’t enough?

And I do understand your belief God says LDS is required but LDS picks and chooses which parts of he Bible to stand on, while casting other parts of it aside.

How am I to know only LDS is correct and perfect.

BTW, I am approaching from only investigating LDS over the last two years after hearing a friend of 20 years tell me “Some religions are more perfect than others”. Shocking as I never heard another Christian say something like that and I don’t know how man could be in a position to assess “a system” is better than all others.

I mean, it wouldn’t be any different than saying Methodists are the only true religion and you work your way to heaven, which of course is a complete misnomer.

Or that Catholicism is the one true church or the works of Calvin, Williams or that German guy and his dissertations.

Yet you rely on the very same Gospels and read from the KJV as many Christians do.

But we are not Christians and now you are?

How can you now be Christians when for 150 years LDS railed against Christianity. I won’t bore you with the quotes, you have read them here.

Moreover, what was the problem specifically with Presbyterians, who we also consider Christians?

Thanks.

[greyfoxx39]

I wouldn’t want to say you are wrong but your insistence as part of your doctrine says all others are wrong and worshiping in a state of apostasy.

We didn’t say it. God did. I guess he didn’t mind that you might be offended. He’d rather you listen up.

[Colofornian]

I wouldn’t want to say you are wrong but your insistence as part of your doctrine says all others are wrong and worshiping in a state of apostasy. [Vendome]

We didn’t say it. God did. I guess he didn’t mind that you might be offended. He’d rather you listen up. [Paragon Defender]

PD made the same claim half a month ago. I challenged him and every Mormon then. I repeat the challenge now...with only a few phrases changed:

Note here how PD ducks responsibility...Mark #1 of a coward. No. Mormons are saying it. Contemporary Mormons. All on the word of what a pimply-faced 14-yo boy said he saw & heard. You really think that barely teen-age BOY Joey Smith was able to take in an assessment that said 100% of Christianity's creeds were an "abomination" to this being?

The fact that no Mormon openly took this challenge is a second mark of cowards.

So I'll repeat the challenge: Have you ever thought about putting 2 & 2 together? About an "angel of light" appearing & proclaiming "another gospel" (what the apostle Paul prophesied about in Galatians 1:6-8) -- and the reality that ONLY SATAN or a demon would announce that 100% of Christianity's creeds were an outright 'abomination' to him???

Hah, PD? (I mean, even a Mormon wouldn't say The Apostles Creed was an "abomination" to him or her, let alone God!!!)

I challenge YOU, EVERY MORMON APOLOGIST, EVERY MORMON LEADER, AND EVERY MORMON GRASSROOTS PERSON to do two things in this regard -- in fairness & in consideration of the millions of $ of slander you put out about the Christian church every day!

What are those two measely things I ask you & other Mormons to do?

#1 Please review the Apostles Creed.

Now why do I challenge you and other Mormons on this? Because Christians in 1820 only embraced a few universal creeds within the church. The Nicene Creed. The Apostles Creed.

And I've read The Apostles Creed with "Mormon eyes." I've looked for what might be objectionable to a Mormon in that creed and can't find it. (Caveat: Please note that the word "catholic" in that creed did not = the formal Roman Catholic church; it only meant at the time universal)

Now why is this important? Because if Mormons CANNOT pinpoint what is so abominable about this creed, then the personage who spoke to Smith wasn't God or Jesus Christ. Because God or Jesus Christ would not speak a falsehood.

So, I beg of you to read it: And as you read it, if you cannot find in it that which God would label it as an "abomination," you know then, that the statement within the First Vision was no better than even from a Mormon point of view to be a "half truth"...and God and Jesus are given to stating "half truths."

#2 Reread the First Vision of Joseph Smith.

Go to vv. 16-25 of Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price. Now tell me anywhere in those passages where these "Personages" are identified as either "God" or "Jesus."

Go, ahead. Mormons often claim, we didn't say that; God did." Well, surely since I referenced what this entity said in v. 19 there MUST be some attribution to "God" if He said it.

Is His (or Jesus') Name in v. 19?
No? Well, maybe 14 yo Joey set it up in v. 18?
What? Not there either?
v. 17?
v. 16?
Well, let's look after v. 19.
v. 20?
v. 21?
v. 22?
v. 23?
v. 24?
v. 25?

Where is the SOURCE for you to claim that "God" said it?

Let's review what Joe said he felt and saw and heard:

v. 16:
Felt
Saw a pillar of light

v. 17:
“the light”
“two Personages” brightness & glory defy all description
a son of the other

v. 18:
“the Personages”

v. 19:
“the Personage”

v. 20:
“the light”

v. 24:
“a light” “heard a voice”

v. 25:
“a light” “two Personages”

Here, some Mormons have said they thoroughly investigated Mormonism!

Yet they've NEVER known these entities deliberately avoided identifying themselves as either God or Jesus?

Do I have to be the one who breaks the news to you that being "a son" of another unnamed being/personage (v. 17) doesn't equate to being Jesus?

Do I have to be the one pointing out to you that these entities are "no names" -- identityless -- per the vision account?

I tell you all what: If two unnamed personages show up Hollywoodesque prop and presentation-wise...but don't leave a calling card...don't take what they say to you at face value.

[MsLady]

Could you point me to scripture in the bible that backs this up?

[Osage Orange]

"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119)]

So PD...is this statement blasphemy or not? Yes or no...will do.