Catholic Cleric: Jesus Cancelled Biblical ‘Chosen People’

Israel National News ^ | 15 Heshvan,5771 (October 23, 2010) | Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu

[wmfights]

Another example.

Yes and no.

Yes the poster is right that the only path to salvation today is by faith in Jesus Christ. No because God is not done with Israel. At the end of our Canon is a book called The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Christians that claim to have replaced Israel can't make any sense of it. Christians that understand God is not done with Israel have no problem understanding it.

[onedoug]

The irony of this is most Jews believe Evangelical Christians are not to be trusted, because we would love to see all Jews come to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior....

I tend somewhat to agree as a non-Jew who has yet attended synagogue quite a bit and who has accepted the Torah outlook on...everything.

I think it will always be that way despite a lot of Christians for Israel. Yet I wonder that it´s not healthy to some extent. The Jews have been uprooted again and again throughout world history, yet the faith of Judaism has been sustained to where we are the fortunate heirs of Torah´s message to recognize and acknowldge God as creator of the universe.

Yet another cross for Christians to bear, as t´were.

[Cvengr]

IMHO, the evidence of God’s hand protecting Israel is substantial. Those who curse Israel will also be cursed. Their military enemies in this century didn’t fail due to military incompetence or foolishness, nor did God bless them as He did Israel. On the contrary, many of the Arab racial groupings would have never been alive had the Hebrew nation obeyed His commands from OT times.

All of human history is His Story.

[Cvengr]

Outstanding points.

IMHO, one natural consequence to amillenialism, the RCC eschatology, is this same type of anti-Semitism.

For those readers confused on these points, the following website has a link to a 27 page Synopsis of the End Times, which fairly succinctly describes many of the differences and theologies accompanying these different eschatologies. While that website is preterist, a position I find lacking, the .pdf does provide some decent descriptions of many of the differing eschatologies.

http://bibleprophecy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51:synopsis-of-the-end-times&catid=17:last-days&Itemid=71

[HarleyD]

The promise to Abraham was that "all nations would be blessed". There are no Jew or Gentile. There are only, as has only been, believers and unbelievers. The righteous and the unrighteous. The children of light and the children of darkness. Those who trust in Christ becomes hiers of Abraham. Those who do are call sons of God. Those who do not are children of the devil. The scriptures are very clear on this.

Luk 19:8-10 And Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, "Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor. And if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I restore it fourfold." And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, since he also is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost."

Joh 8:39 They answered him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did,

Rom 4:13-14 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.

Gal 3:6-7 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"? Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.

Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Heb 2:16-17 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

I threw in some quotes by our Lord Jesus because I'm tired of hearing that Paul was an anti-Semetic (which Paul would say is a stupid argument).

It was always the view of scripture that the promises laid forth are for BELIEVERS. We are the sons (and daughters) of Abraham. Our promise for rest is NOT here. This is not our homeland. We look forward to another place. For once the Vatican is going back to the original teachings of the Church.

This is a very basic principle; God blesses His children.

Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

When we become "children of God" we enter the kingdom of heaven.

Aside from God standard grace that He gives to all men, God does not bless those who are in rebellion. It is utter blasphamy to think otherwise and cheapens God's working in the believers' life.

[Iscool]

Yes the covenant with Israel in eternal but in Jesus Christ the Church has been grafted onto the root of Israel and has become the New Israel, joint heirs with the Jews. In Jesus Christ there is no longer any distinction between Jew and Greek.

Not even close to being accurate...

Some Gentiles have been grafted onto the tree that become Christianity, the Body, the church...Some of the natural branches, the Jews have been broken off...

There is no difference between Jew and Greek IN THE CHURCH...Outside the church is a different story...

When the church leaves, those Gentiles who chose not to be adopted in will spend an eternity in Hell...

When the church leaves, those Jews who were cut off, will be given another opportunity...Romans 9, 10, 11...

Dump the phoney theology and believe God...

[Iscool]

The promise of land to Abram was universalized in the New Testament to include the whole world. The heirs are those who are of faith.

Christians are not being promised land...What would we need land for??? Our dwelling is in heaven...You think you own the land in N. Korea??? Go claim it...

[Iscool]

anti-Semitic chr*stians

In the same sentence???

[Iscool]

And to suggest that Christ is going to restore Jerusalem to Israel is equally as dumb.

Um, uh, tell that to the PEOPLE OF ISRAEL...Talk about dumb???

[RFEngineer]

“Their military enemies in this century didn’t fail due to military incompetence or foolishness”

I disagree. It was the incompetence of Arabs and the logistics of the US that allows Israel to exist to this day.

Sure there are future challenges that seem daunting, but there is no question that Israel will prevail over the greater incompetents in the Arab word.

[Petrosius]

There is no difference between Jew and Greek IN THE CHURCH...

That is my point. The promises of the Old Covenant have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The New Covenant is not a break with the Old but is its true continuation and fulfillment. The covenant with Israel is eternal but is now fulfilled through Jesus Christ. In Jesus Christ, i.e. in the Church, there is no longer any distinction between Jew and Greek.

[wmfights]

Thank you

Thank you for the link.

[cookcounty]

This man doesn’t understand scripture or reason.

The fact that the Jewish people arethe Chosen People doesn’t make any individual Gentile less in God’s eyes. The basic question to ask is.......”Choaen for What?”

The answer is, as an object lesson to the world, chosen to demonstrate God’s power, grace and mercy.

[cookcounty]

The root of “Christian anti-Semitism” in history is replacement theology, which is bunk, and I am happy to say, rejected by most evangelicals as well as others in America.

[af_vet_1981]

“The house of Israel, and the house of Juda have made void my covenant, which I made with their fathers.” - Jeremias 11:10

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

• Moreover the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah the second time, while he was yet shut up in the court of the prison, saying,
• Thus saith the LORD the maker thereof, the LORD that formed it, to establish it; the LORD is his name;
• Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
• For thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city, and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, which are thrown down by the mounts, and by the sword;
• They come to fight with the Chaldeans, but it is fill them with the dead bodies of men, whom I have slain in mine anger and in my fury, and for all whose wickedness I have hid my face from this city.
• Behold, I will bring it health and cure, and I will cure them, and will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.
• And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
• And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
• And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
• Thus saith the LORD; Again there shall be heard in this place, which ye say shall be desolate without man and without beast, even in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, that are desolate, without man, and without inhabitant, and without beast,
• The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.
• Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Again in this place, which is desolate without man and without beast, and in all the cities thereof, shall be an habitation of shepherds causing their flocks to lie down.
• In the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the vale, and in the cities of the south, and in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, shall the flocks pass again under the hands of him that telleth them, saith the LORD.
• Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
• In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
• In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
• For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
• Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
• And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,
• Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
• Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
• As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.
• Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
• Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
• Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
• Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

[af_vet_1981]

[edit correction due to http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=2953630 having an error where someone dropped the infinitive "to" from the verse.

They come to fight with the Chaldeans, but it is to fill them with the dead bodies of men, whom I have slain in mine anger and in my fury, and for all whose wickedness I have hid my face from this city.

[Mrs.Z]

Yes, salvation is individual and found in Christ alone.

God’s Land and the throne of David are still important and still linked to the Jewish people.

Your mistake is in grouping all the OT covenants together.

The Noahic and Mosaic covenants, (of which you speak) WERE conditional.

The Abrahamic and Davidic covenants WERE NOT.

Let’s focus on just ONE Abrahamic/Davidic promise on which I believe we can agree.

God promised David an everlasting throne through his descendants, and in Luke 1:32, Gabriel renews that promise to Mary. He promises that her son will be “given the throne of His father David: and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever...”

At that time, no descendent of David ruled, nor did the throne of David exist in Mary’s time. And today, that throne still has not been returned.

So we have three choices:
1)Gabriel outright lied to Mary. (I don’t think either of us believe that.)

2)Gabriel allegorized about the throne of her ancestor David to the teenaged Mary. (I think we both know that she would have taken him literally, so this would have been the same as a lie.)

3)Gabriel told the truth and that truth has not yet been fulfilled.

This is just one yet to be fulfilled promise.

If God’s OT promise to David is void, and the NT renewed promise to Mary is worthless, how can we rely on Him now?

[Louis Foxwell]

Replacement Theology, or Covenant Theology, was first expressed by Origen and then later by Augustine. It became the position of the RCC as this church emerged as the state church.

And has been repudiated for nearly 1500 years.

[Uri’el-2012]

Asked about the passage at a news conference, Greek-Melchite
Archbishop Cyrille Salim Bustros, said:

"We Christians cannot speak about the promised land for the Jewish
people. There is no longer a chosen people. All men and
women of all countries have become the chosen people.

Vatican body asks UN to 'end Israeli occupation'

This guy has a lot of chutzpah speaking for all Christians
when he is only speaking for the Roman "church"

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[triumphant values]

And you wonder why Jews do not trust anything coming out of Rome.

Would it be anti-semitic for someone to post "and you wonder why Catholics don't trust anything coming out of Tel Aviv"?