Ex-LDS seminary principal gets 5-to-life for abusing student

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | Sept. 20, 2010 | Donald W. Meyers

[Colofornian]

They seem to come to grips with the fact that people who reveal lds misrepresent the lds’s own words and ignore the answers revealed to them on the topic over and over again. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Fixed that for ya

You know each poster has a way of letting other posters -- especially the one they are conversing with -- know exactly what they're responding to.

Me? (I use italics to set apart the other person's comments)
You? (you use a line across the bottom)

So what did you do in post #151? You made up an entire sentence as if it came from my mouth without even bothering to quote one single word from post #139. And that's a "fix"??? [Ya know, the traditional "fix" around here is to quote somebody & then change a word or two or a phrase]

So you're not satisfied to merely gossip putdowns about me outside of e-pings; so now you want to treat me as your puppet & pour words into my mouth? Really?

I think I agree with Elsie's assessment in post #170...you're stooping lower & lower.

I just see the spirit of Joseph Smith in you: Had the editors of the Nauvoo Expositor run the full content of the Expositor by Mayor Smith, I think he would have responded in the exact same way you just did:

He would have ensured all of the type was scattered across the floor...instead of on newspaper print...
...and replaced it with 100% foreign content to anything they said...
...and then would have told Mr. Law & Company: "There. 'Fixed that for ya'"

[Colofornian]

Undecided readers...

Undecided readers, you don't have to pray about the Book of Mormon to determines its falsity...any more than you would have to spend decades praying about...
...the Qu'ran...
...Hindu Upanishads & other Hindu writings...
...the occultic Urantia ramblings...
...L. Ron Hubbard's writings...
...Buddhist writings...
...etc...

I mean come on now, Mormons already have a subjective response prepared for you if your "prayers" about the Book of Mormon come back "negative."

Why, you didn't pray in the right way ("with a sincere heart with real intent" implying that you're insincere or were of ill motive if you get negative vibes about the BoM)...
...Or you didn't pray enough...
...Or whatever subjective bosom burners they toss in...

Not only that, but the verse they appeal to was Jesus' brother who was communicating with other Christians. James 1:5 is a promise for those in Christ; it's not a carte blanche promise for those outside of Christ. Mormons hijack it.

[Paragon Defender]

Undecided readers,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis. They have an obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The strawman argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picked quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.

Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there’s nothing new here. It’s all been addressed many times before.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here’s more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

[svcw]

Thanks again.

I looked up the jefferylindsay site.

He states: Latter-day Saints believe in Christ as the Savior, the Redeemer, the Son of God, the Creator of the earth, and the only source of salvation.

However, B. Young and J. Smith among other lds leaders have said:

“If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]” - (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God” - Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

You (lds) believe in salvation "after all you can do" and passing by with the permission of Joseph Smith into heaven.

[SZonian]

I don’t “attack” the church or any of the mormons on FR, nor do I need to. One only needs to read the pusillanimous comments from many of the mormons and their “friends” to those of us who have the audacity to comment on our experiences as mormons to arrive at a rational conclusion as to who is “attacking” whom.

My “viewpoints” have been met with ridicule, dimissal and ad hominem attacks by mormons and their “friends”. I have nothing to gain from posting my experiences. I do so only to raise awareness and present factual information for others to use in basing their decisions or forming their opinions.

If that is considered by you or any other mormon to be a form of “attacking” your religion, so be it. It just tells me that an alternate perspective on a topic is not welcome and that I must be over the target.

[Godzilla]

Undecided readers -

All but two of the links are from unoffical lds websites that do not reflect the official stances of the mormon church. Yet the complaint always is ‘misrepresenting’ lds doctrines - yet time and again we ask for the specifics to be pointed out so it can be clarified. The response - crickets.

If you want a sanitized and propangandistic view of mormonism - these will be the places to go. If you want to see the ‘consumer reports’ type of information then you should go to -

http://www.mrm.org/

http://www.mormonthink.com/

http://www.irr.org/

http://www.utlm.org/

http://www.4witness.org/index.php

[greyfoxx39]

There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis. They have an obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The strawman argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picked quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.

Link

As of December 31, 2009, there were 51,736 LDS missionaries serving in 344 church missions throughout the world. Their work, often in cooperation with local members, resulted in 280,106 convert baptisms in 2009.[12] Author David Stewart points out that the number of convert baptisms per missionary per year has fallen from a high of 8.03 in 1989 to just 4.67 in 2005.[13] He argues that the number of converts would increase if Mormon missionaries made greater efforts in meeting new people; he points out that the average companionship spends only four or five hours per week attempting to meet new people.[13]

How terrible it is that a handful of Christians post a handful of threads per week on FreeRepublic to counter the proselytizing efforts of the missionaries and public relations campaign of the mormon church. Don't you just feel SO sorry that the poor, persecuted mormons aren't able to have their message heard?

Mormon ads

[Osage Orange]

Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad.

Well...there you go again...."the Church". ROFLOL!!

"Dear reader's" : ) please please read Paragon Defender's personal response's to direct questions. If you can find any......

[Colofornian]

Undecided readers - All but two of the links are from unoffical lds websites that do not reflect the official stances of the mormon church. Yet the complaint always is ‘misrepresenting’ lds doctrines - yet time and again we ask for the specifics to be pointed out so it can be clarified. The response - crickets. If you want a sanitized and propangandistic view of mormonism - these will be the places to go. If you want to see the ‘consumer reports’ type of information then you should go to -

If you indeed want the "used car" angle on the lemons turned out by Mormonism, by all means...click on the links provided by Paragon Defender.

Examples of Mormonism's 'lemons'?:

19th century
The political heritage represented on this Web site -- the fledgling Republican party -- decided in 1856 to take on the "twin relics of barbarism" as its jumpstart social issues' challenge. What were those "twin relics?" (a) slavery; (b) polygamy Before 1900, unparalleled gains on both issues had been attained!

In fact, grassroots America signed 7 million names to 28 banners delivered to Congress to turn back Lds Democrat B.H. Roberts, who was elected to Congress in 1898. (Roberts took yet a third wife after even the Mormons began shutting the door on polygamy in 1890!)

Score: American Grassroots 28 million; Mormon Lemons: Shut out.

20th century:

For over 75 years of the 20th century, a black person could NOT be married in a Mormon temple. Why? Because he was black!

It actually took liberal college campuses -- like Athletic Directors from Stanford who would refuse to schedule BYU in sports; or 14 black Wyoming football players, who got kicked off the squad just for wearing a symbolic protest about opponent BYU...before Mormonism's leaders were shamed enough to be stung for stupendously stiff & faulty theological underpinnings to such practices.

Score: RelicBusters over Mormonic Racist Lemons by yet another Shutout.

21st century:
* Well, it took Mormonism almost 50 years to begin addressing polygamy...60 years to begin shutting the actual faucet flow of new polygamous unions;
* It took almost 150 years for Mormonism to deal with its racist theology & practices;
* Now how long will it take Mormonism to end its worldwide slander of Christianity?

I have a copy of a 1938 book published by the Mormon church (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, The Deseret News Press). On the same page where Joseph Smith spouts his racist beliefs, he then turns his attacks upon Christianity. Here, I'll set it up with a Smith quote on p. 269 -- followed by two more quotes from p. 270:

Elder Hyde inquired the situation of the negro. I replied, they came into the world slaves, mentally and physically..." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 269)

I mean, really: Do you want to acquire a "lemon prophet" such as this?

But Smith didn't know when to shut his clapper: Same source, p. 270: Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization."

Everybody needs to ask Paragon Defender if he's in agreement with Joseph Smith that that blacks are a different "species"??? (Is that what you call "divine enlightenment," P.D.?)

Of course, Smith wasn't done. On that same page, same source, Smith said: "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"

So there ya go.

Score: The Flying Inman SlanderBusters put the squeeze on the Mormon Apologists' Lemonade!

But we're not done. Please write the Salt Lake City based church. Ask them to stop calling Christians "apostates" and stop referencing our creeds as an "abomination" to their god. Please be respectful.

God loves the Mormon leaders despite their turning others away from Him unto legalism!

[CommerceComet]

I am done arguing with a wall.

How can you be involved in an argument when you consistently fail to provide any specifics of your opponents' "misrepresentations" and "spinning" despite numerous accusations on your part and REPEATED requests by those slandered in such a way?

Yes, undecided readers, decide for yourself. What does it tell you when someone fails to provide one example of his accusations despite numerous requests?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“You are right I am getting annoyed. I know better than to argue with anti’s because it is pointless. They will always come back with another propaganda piece or strawman argument. “

I would point out gently that you never do “argue” - meaning provide any factual evidence to refute or support a point - I came to realize it is because there are no facts, evidence or logical argumentation to support a cult based on feelings.

You could always post links and accuse others of falsifying quotes... Oh, you are already doing that? Nevermind.

[MHGinTN]

"What does it tell you ..." It tells readers that the poster has only disdain for the non-Mormon and cannot get beyond his/her/its condescension to answer any legitimate question, so he/she/it just blusters mindlessly. ... And I still don't understand why this thread has had this much attention over a common criminal, regardless of the perp's religious affiliation.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Whoooooaaaaaa! Whammmbulence EMT Service needed!!!!

“If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s a group of Christians here that spends a great deal of their time pointing out the false claims of the mormonite cult.

“They post THE CHURCHES OWN WORDS! Words of our own prophets! And they do it on an almost daily basis.”

“They have an obsession with truth.”

“You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting, like the aforementioned posting of the actual quotes of our leaders - like when our high priest, Bring ‘em Young, hot and a lot, said, “Oh, yea, people live on the sun.”

“Mormons try to use a strawman argument - one of our big favorites - and we frequently cherry-picked Bible quotes or other material out of context to try to support our mormon views on polygamy, polytheism, becoming gods, etc.

“After the “quotation” the mormonite will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant - but Oh Snap, they never let us do it without pointing it out to everyone! It just isn’t fair. I think I’m going to get teary eyed...”

[MHGinTN]

Over the target indeed! ... And they’re shooting marshmellows at you. You are after all the greatest threat to thier hive ... you’ve been in the midst and escaped with all their ‘secrets’!

[svcw]

THX 1138

[Colofornian]

They have an obsession

Well, this is PD's fave word of late. This poster is "obsessed" this and that poster is "obsessed" that. It seems when you can't address content you shoot for the messenger.

Are Mormon missionaries "obsessed" -- leaving all behind as they spend 70 hours for two years obeying dozens & dozens & dozens of rules like they were geared for 12 yos? (Maybe CC or Reaganaut could re-post that list)

Was Jesus Christ "obsessed?"

C.S. Lewis once wrote that the Son of God becoming a man to save humanity could be compared to a man becoming a frog (a man-frog) to save all the frogs of the earth. I would claim that any man becoming a man-frog to save frogs would be a really desperate act. I read a headline earlier this year about the dolphins searching for clean water in the Gulf so they could survive. Could you imagine a man becoming a man-dolphin to save all these dolphins?

I'd say that would be not only desperate, but rather "obsessive."

So if the Son of God was so clued in...
...to become a fetus...
...to become an infant whose diapers needed changing...
...to place Himself under the authority of mere human parents...
...to be subject to accusations that He was possessed by a demon (John 8)...
...to become a target for stoning and hate...
...to place Himself under the authority of civic leaders...
...to undergo whipping and lashing...
...to be nailed to the torture "machine" of their day -- the shame and scandal of a cross...
...to endure every single sin of every man and woman from history past to our history consummation...
...that's all rather "obsessive"...

So...consider the "Company" Christians keep, PD.

And certainly, what this also means is just how valuable you are PD. God loves you enough to become "obsessed" about that desire for you to live eternally in His presence. And He loves you enough to send some "obsessed" Flying Inmans who often choose a "strange" way to love you: We love you with the truth, because you're worth it.

Your worthiness isn't found in what you do for ritualism; but rather in who you are as His created and potential adopted son. You have an identity beyond Mormonism; He wants it to be for you "in Christ."

[aruanan]

C.S. Lewis once wrote that the Son of God becoming a man to save humanity could be compared to a man becoming a frog (a man-frog) to save all the frogs of the earth.

Do you have a reference for this? I've read about everything Lewis wrote for the popular market many times (excluding the Hooper's Walterized stuff). I don't think Lewis would have made such an elementary blunder in such an analogy because humans are made in the image of God; frogs are not made in the image of man; therefore, the Son of God becoming a man to save humanity couldn't possibly be compared to a man becoming a frog to save frogs.

[Colofornian]

Do you have a reference for this? I've read about everything Lewis wrote for the popular market many times (excluding the Hooper's Walterized stuff). I don't think Lewis would have made such an elementary blunder in such an analogy because humans are made in the image of God; frogs are not made in the image of man; therefore, the Son of God becoming a man to save humanity couldn't possibly be compared to a man becoming a frog to save frogs.

Well, I heard it second-hand. So your Q prompted me to check...(no "frog" reference found yet...but still checkin' "tadpoles").

But I found a similar C.S. Lewis reference...and I'll revise my future comments and change "frog" to "slug or crab" for now til I find the frog or tadpole ref...I guess that undermines your "image of man" comment still...

Anyway, Lewis likens Christ's incarnation to becoming a slug or crab in Mere Christianity, p. 155.

Lewis revisits this theme in Mere Christianity, p. 182, where Lewis says the purpose of the incarnation is to turn "creatures" into sons of God. (You need to understand the Biblical backdrop that unredeemed man is constantly referenced as barbaric "animals" in the Bible -- much to people's surprise...even Jesus referenced a people group once as "dogs")

I guess, overall, you're accusing Lewis of making a "blunder" of referencing slugs & crabs -- since they'd be a mere slight parallel distinction to frogs or tadpoles, eh?

[Paragon Defender]

Undecided readers,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation. You’ll likely see perfect examples of just this shortly after I post.

Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there’s nothing new here. It’s all been addressed many times before.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here’s more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the “you never address our points” posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers to just as you have here. Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself.

[Elsie]

There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking posting writings printed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

FIXED it for you...

---

WHY do QUOTED MORMON writings get MORMONs all in a twitter?