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To: RnMomof7; NYer; Salvation; Pyro7480; Coleus; narses; annalex; Campion; don-o; Mrs. Don-o; ...
There was no doctrine of transubstantiation until 1215.

Yet nothing else was ever taught. The ONLY ones who ever believed that John Chapter 6 was a metaphor were the heretical gnostics.

Truth be told, Protestantism has embraced a great deal of the gnostic heresies which is not surprising when one considers that many Protestants proudly embrace a synthesis of Arianism and Nestorianism.

233 posted on 09/21/2010 1:27:01 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
The key person you need to be familiar with is Berengarius of Tours. His heresy (denying a change in the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ) resulted in this decree of the Lateran council 4 (this was, apparently after local councils in 1073 and 1078, where Berengarius recanted his position, did not finally resolve the heresy).

But, as with all Church Councils since the Council of Jerusalem, as recorded in the Acts of the Apostles, these were held, not to establish some sort of doctrine, but to resolve controversies that crop up.

247 posted on 09/21/2010 1:59:54 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: wagglebee

I think a distinction might be helpful.

(Wow! Who saw THAT coming?)

The doctrine which came to be called “Real Presence” was believed from the beginning. The detailed account, called transubstantiation, was declared de fide later. And after that Aquinas really developed the first (that I know of) detailed examination of the doctrine.

Non-Catholics, who are resolved and determined not to understand the Church do not understand the process of the development of doctrine because they do not understand the meaning of Acts 15 or of early (and late) Church history. In particular they do not understand that for the most part conciliar resolutions (and papal definitions) arise because there is a disagreement and the Church appeals to the teachers to resolve it.

One of our functions in this forum and in others is to provide them with a diversion from their own disagreements. As long as they can twist and pervert the truth into an attack on us, they can agree. It is when we are not around that their little bodies fissiparate in disagreement.

You saw how they went to town on that Arminian Baptist.

Consequently, it serves no emotional need for them even to try to wrap their minds around the meaning of our teaching and of the development of doctrine. They are here largely to distract themselves from their own strife. As long as we are here they can tell themselves that they are not really addicted to discord. If we go away, then they have nothing to do with their own personal interpretation of Scripture but to fight with one another.

There is not much purpose in trying to explain what we think, not here. They are not, for the most part, unintelligent. They just see no benefit to themselves in understanding what we really teach. We’re here as anger sponges — nothing more, nothing else.


286 posted on 09/21/2010 7:16:45 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: wagglebee
Just for those people who are wondering what you are talking about......LOL!

The Great Heresies

John Calvin’s Worst Heresy: That Christ Suffered in Hell
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Succumbs to Heresy
The Bishop Discovers Heresy?
From Orthodox to Heresy: The Secularizing of Catholic Universities
Progressivism/Liberalism is Heresy [Excellent read & reference]

Is heresy better than schism? [Ecumenical]
Modernism: The Modernist Heresy
THE GREAT HERESIES-THE MODERN PHASE
The Protestant Heresy
The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene

Americanism, Then and Now: Our Pet Heresy (encyclical of Pope Leo XIII)
Heresies then and now: ancient Christian heresies practiced in modern times
The Plain Truth About The Baptist Bride Heresy
Balthasar, Hell, and Heresy: An Exchange (is it compatable with the Catholic faith?)
Heresies then and now: ancient Christian heresies practiced in modern times

Know Your Heresies
The Rev. John Piper: an interesting look at "heresy vs. schism"
Pietism as an Ecclesiological Heresy
Heresy
Arian Heresy Still Tempts, Says Cardinal Bertone (Mentions Pelagianism As Well)

Catholic Discussion] Church group stays faithful (to heresy!)
An overview of modern anti-Trinitarian heresies
Where heresy and dissent abound [Minnesota]
Gnostic Gospels - the heresy entitled "Gnosticism."
Christian mavericks find affirmation in ancient heresies

The So-Called ‘Gospel’ of Judas: Unmasking an Ancient Heresy
Benedict XVI Heresies and Errors
Donatism (Know your heresies)
The Heresy of Mohammed (Chapter 4, The Great Heresies)
Father & Son Catholic Writers Tag-Team Old & New Heresies

295 posted on 09/21/2010 10:07:36 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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