Posted on 08/27/2010 9:14:30 PM PDT by hiho hiho
Let me start out by saying I'm an atheist. Am I absolutely sure there is no God, no supreme being looking over us? No, of course not. Contrary to some opinions, that doesn't make me agnostic. I hold the possibility of God to be so remote as to be inconsequential, but I don't for a moment think I possess all knowledge on the matter.
I would also add that I am a hopeful atheist, not only confident in my lack of belief, but assured that it is ultimately the belief system most in the world will come to. When we as a society cast off our gods, we can finally grow up as a sentient species.
So, do I hate God, when I don't even believe in him? Yes, absolutely - I despise the idea of God as described by religion. Call him Yaweh, Allah, or any other title you wish to ascribe. The idea of God is just as vile as any actual existence. And if he is a real being, my hatred becomes all the more justified.
But hate is such a strong word, you might say - yes indeed. Why do I feel so strongly?
As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words...
The caption below the picture attached to the article explains the scene, but here it is again. A young boy, dying from famine, is trying to crawl to a UN food station about a kilometer away. He isn't going to make it, and a vulture is stalking him.
Fundamentalists of all stripes will attest to the power of prayer, to the power of an intercessory God to move in the lives of people when called upon.
Did this boy not pray? We don't know - did he perhaps pray to the wrong God? Did no one in the world pray for hungry children?
Can not the God who parts seas, destroys the world through flood, raises the dead, and professes to be creator of all we see manage to feed a starving boy? If he can, and doesn't, he is despicable. If he can't, he is a fraud.
As the photo caption says, the picture won a Pulitzer Prize. Shortly after winning, the photographer committed suicide. It's not known exactly why - although guilt over the boy in the photo seems a likely explanation.
I'm also reminded of a story told by an elderly Ukrainian woman about losing her son during Stalin's forced famine on the people of Ukraine in the 1930s.
The Babushka speaks about having to look her dying son in the eye, and tell him no, he couldn't have the beet root. She had to choose to give it to her healthier child in the hopes of survival. Her son's eyes dimmed, and he faded away.
She was in all likelihood Orthodox, and probably prayed daily - to no avail.
Now I know all the arguments that will be brought out in defense of the deity. "God works in mysterious ways," and "we can't know the mind of God," or maybe "God had a higher purpose for them." We would never try to excuse the same type of behavior from a fellow person, why are some so willing to give God a pass?
If God could claim to have created everything and then sat back, allowed events to flow as the might, that still wouldn't absolve him, but it could be at least a viable argument.
But that's not what God or those who follow him claim. God is seen as an active participant in the world, answering prayers and interceding on behalf of the faithful. And that belief is also contemptible.
When the faithful claim miracles on their behalf, they are elevating themselves above the less fortunate. They are, in essence, claiming a right to divine intervention for everything from traffic to sports. The trivial in their life suddenly becomes more important than a young child dying from cancer or hunger or war.
When a person says "God answered my prayer," I automatically dismiss whatever comes next. I know they are wrong. And I would argue it's even worse if they are right. If God will allow himself to be troubled to clear traffic ahead of someone running late, to help a person on a test, or cure a cold, he by default makes himself responsible for all of the unanswered prayers.
And some of them he chooses to ignore indict him as either pathetic ideal or wretched overlord. When Tony Dungy, former coach of the Indianapolis Colts, said they won the Superbowl by doing it "the Lord's way," I wanted to climb into the television set and punch him in the face. Celebrities and the wealthy who claim to owe their success to God are saying "look at me, I'm important to God."
When someone like Glenn Beck tells you his rally is divine providence, he is telling you his movement is God's working in our lives. Yet the same God cannot alleviate the suffering of a dying child.
The desire we all hold for meaning in life can explain why so many people are drawn to religion. Easy answers to those questions that once seemed impossible to know. I am by no means indicting all people who are religious.
On the contrary, some are fine individuals. It's their belief system that is flawed and ultimately evil. Good people can be very wrong. I once struggled to find meaning in faith. I can say, without hesitation, that my decision to leave it behind was one of the most liberating of my life.
And of course just liberating yourself from the heavy yoke of religion doesn't mean you will be a better person. But at least you will understand that our society and how it treats the least among us says something very strong about us. The religious right likes to say we would be lawless, killing, raping, etc, with no regard for consequences.
I beg to differ. I think when we leave behind dogma we can find within ourselves the capacity to work to lift all. Regardless of what Beck and company say, it's very much about collective salvation. For as long as one suffers needlessly, we are all the lesser for it.
I've been told I will be sorry one day, that "every knee shall bow, every tongue confess." Maybe I will succumb to some unimaginable torture and do just that. If I am wrong, and there is a God, I hope I have the strength to express my true feelings.
Or this one maybe...
Interesting.
My what a clever pile of molecules. I’m so glad it shared its thoughts, or whatever they are, with us. Funny how a chemistry experiment can be so opinionated about things, and so certain that what it says is “true”.
Physics is fascinating, isn’t it?
Mr. Musall fully embodies the concept of being lost. He certainly needs our prayers.
“So, it’s somehow God’s fault that the photographer would rather get a Pulitzer prize than actually stop to carry that child to the feeding station?”
I would have taken the photo. Then carried the child to the aid station.
Paging Whittaker Chambers...
If the atheist is correct, then the Christian has somehow tapped into an unidentified power to become a new creation. At the end of his/her existence, that Christian was able to leave a more positive impact on the world because of his/her faith.
But what if the Christian is right?
What can I say? Wisdom is a pain that is never inflicted on some.
I feel sorry for the man, for both his limited understanding and for being proud of it enough to share.
ah yes. So when Atheists staved 20 million Ukrainians, it was God’s fault.
When Mao starved 40 million Chinese, it was God’s fault.
And when Christians go into the worst hellholes of the world to give medical care and food, well, it’s God’s fault too...
I know I’m being snotty, but if he was an honest Atheist, he would be thinking: Since there is no God, I guess I’m stuck fixing the problem...which is why he isn’t honest, just making God a scapegoat for the problem of evil...
Well, not necessarily. It's pretty clear that belief or non-belief is a very poor indicator as to whether or not someone will do positive things in their life.
As evidence of this, I cite the entirety of world history since the death of Christ.
I look at it a little differently. I firmly believe that there is a higher consciousness in the universe than that of man, and I suspect that the universe exists as a thought of that consciousness. Whether it resembles any of the various and sundry Gods that humanity has postulated over the ages, I do not know.
As to whether God interacts with or interceeds on behalf of humans, I have seen no evidence that convinces me. I have not refused to look, in fact I have spent a fair part of my 64 years looking. Every argument that I have heard can be dismissed on the grounds that somebody was mistaken, somebody lied, or there is a simpler explanation.
I of course may be wrong, and there are those who would suggest that I “believe” just in case. Unfortunately a rational mind cannot work that way.
When Jeff gets to 8th grade he’s going to be embarrassed by all this tripe he wrote in 7th.
Amazing because I once flew into a rage at a coworker who claimed God had helped her find something that she had lost. I was very upset about Rwanda at the time. I remember showing her the cover of Time with small feet and hands floating down a river of red - in Rwanda.
There are many good people in Portland.
You poor thing. The world is a better and fairer place than at any point in history.
Less people die as a percentage of the global population than at any time in history.
Is each life valuable? Sure, but God set up a natural order and then their is man’s evil.
If God saved every life, what would the value of that life really be?
What would the human condition be?
Would man’s character be strengthened if God was an interventionist God?
How would you learn without failure? Defeat? Winning? Achievement?
How would the human condition be improved if man never learned the arts and sciences? By that I mean, why would man struggle to learn a new thing to avoid pain or gain pleasure.
If God intervened, always, there would be no reason for man to seek out solutions.
There would be no man vs man, man vs nature and there would damn little of man vs himself.
He would be responsible for nothing since God would intervene whenever called.
You don’t have to believe in God but he most surely knows who you are.
You can hate God and he will still be waiting, at the door, for you his most loved child and son.
Is there a particuliar reason you have sought this attention? When in fact most on FR do believe in God?
hummm....you have forgotten who you are.
Hiho, hiho it’s over your head I know. . .
Anyway, my crummy joke aside, there is no such thing as collective salvation. If there was your personal wishes would always be subordinated to group, clique and clan rules, even in the realm of spirituality.
No, your salvation is personal and your relationship with God is as singular as the one you have with your parents, even if you are from a large family.
You are unique and have personal needs like no one else and God recognizes that as unique individuals you should be treated as such, so that your experiences are solely unique to the life you live.
How can you hate what you don’t believe in? It’s like the atheist standing up on the roof of his house, screaming, “YOU DON’T EXIST! YOU DON’T EXIST!” at the sky.
You have used the word God over twenty times in your post....if you don’t believe there is a God then exactly who are you objecting to?
I like that perspective:
Scapegoating God.
You know, I could go on and on about that with some atheist I know and still others who blame, erh, damn God for everything.
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